I was the biggest NASA fanboy when I was younger, and in my teenage years literally half the reason I liked the USA so much and its ideals, it was pure scientific good, the greatest thing we (they) ever did......but these two conversations have seriously destroyed my belief in these institutions for the first time.....and I used to laugh at all the conspiracy theory nutcases on this stuff as "plebs who want to tear down others becaus ethey couldn't do it themselves", even trotted out the usual line "how could 400,000 people working on the space programme be keeping it secret, nothing stays a secret among even a few people these days".