OK. So, speaking of the Senate and Senator Obama, he will resign his seat on Sunday. His replacement will be appointed by the governor of Illinois, Rod Blagojevich. Who are the likely candidates, and who's likely to actually be appointed?

Well, the most likely candidate and the person most likely to be appointed is Jesse Jackson Jr. , the congressman from Chicago. But there are a range of candidates, and it's quite interesting because, as you know, the governor is in political hot water himself. His numbers are very low. There's all sorts of talk of investigations and the like.

So, the question is, would he, potentially, maybe appoint somebody who's a close ally in the state legislature?There's the 73-year-old Emil Jones. Then, what about pressure from the Hispanic community?There's Congressman Luis Gutierrez. And there's also talk about Tammy Duckworth - Tammy Duckworth, who runs the Veterans Affairs Department for Illinois, and she is a double amputee and close to Obama. But there are also people who might be potentially opponents for the governor going forward, like the attorney general, Lisa Madigan, or the treasurer. So, there's all these kinds of angles to the game that are very interesting. But it looks at this moment, most likely, that you're going to end up with Jesse Jackson Jr.

OK.  And Juan, what was your best political conversation of this week?


That's a harsh statement. I mean, you know, some of us were expecting - I mean because this is a very delicate matter for Barack Obama. On the one hand he wants to keep those civil rights establishment figures behind him, supporting him throughout this general election period, but at the same time he knows well that if he can create a little bit of distance with Jesse Jackson, he may be able to pull on more moderate Democrats, white and black, and maybe even some moderate Republicans.

But Jesse Jackson, Jr.  seems to have taken the lead and seems particularly angry and personally offended by what his father had done. And it suggests that the relationship there is somewhat fractured as well.

Let's go deeper, linguistically into this. When, at the time that I spoke with Reverend Jackson, and this was yesterday, we believed, knowing what we did, we being most of the press, that he had said that Senator Obama had emasculated himself. As it turned out, the phrase was much rougher and much more, you know, I want to blank, blank, blank. Is there a difference between those two ways, neither of them particularly nice, of parsing out lack of manhood?

Well, you know, I actually read that slightly differently. When I heard about the specific comments and the castration and sort of the anger in which it was delivered, even though it was a whisper of. I immediately began to think back historically about, you know, the ways and which powerful black men, or uppity black men were punished.


That's one of the projects, yeah, that I followed in the book. Can we build a limb that is basically indistinguishable from a natural arm?So if you're missing an arm, you get this new prosthetic that can sense and move and operate like a natural arm. And that's typically ambitious, and they call that DARPA-hard. Let's try something that just seems completely insane, totally, you know, crazy ambitious. And in that case, they didn't get there. They didn't quite get to that point, but they did get a lot of these technologies in motion for controlling a robot with mind power alone, for instance.

Yeah. How do they ensure that they keep getting new cutting-edge thoughts inside of DARPA?

That's one of the challenges, and that's one of the reasons I was able to write this book, too, because they need to get the word out. They need to find people out there who've got these ideas, who want to pitch them to DARPA. Or come to work for DARPA as a program manager because DARPA program managers, they all leave. After two to six years, they're gone. Their expiration dates are printed on their ID badges. So they've got this turnover, 25 percent every single year.

And they also have a deadline, right?


A Russian activist has shared a secret video clip that shows two of the Pussy Riot members who were arrested being interrogated. A furious policeman shouts, sometimes I regret that it's not 1937 - the time called the Great Terror in Russia under Josef Stalin, in which a million or more people were executed.

Pussy Riot knows the score. They live and strive in a country where activists, dissidents, artists and reporters can suffer for their bravery, and they went ahead with their action anyway, just below Vladimir Putin's cold smile. Pussy Riot are champions.

(Singing) Big smile for the camera. It's always on. It's all in the protocol. They tapped my phone. Golden idols holding rivals. Take my body, anybody. I'm your trophy. Make my nose bleed. Now you own me. Oh, my God, I'm so happy, I could die. Oh, my God, I'm so happy, I could cry. Oh, my God, I'm so happy, I could cry. Everybody's doing the same thing, and it makes me happy, yeah. It makes me happy, yeah. Oh, my God.

Pussy Riot.


We're small compared to some of the other growers throughout the state here in Illinois. But we normally have everything in the ground. As of Monday, we only had about 25% or so in the ground tops, actually a little bit less than that.

So what are you going to do?As you said, like, normally, you've had your corn in. And then I guess you'd move onto your beans. What are you going to do?

Right now we have a few different options. We do carry crop insurance, as does many of the farmers throughout the state and throughout the Midwest, for that matter. And we do have an option to take what they call prevent plants. That's part of our crop insurance.

What happens if you and all of your neighbors don't get your corn into the field?Like I say, as you've told me now, you've got like only about a fraction in the ground if what you normally would have at this time of year. Are we going to - forgive me for being selfish about it - are we not going to have corn this summer to go with our barbecues and everything else or what?What's going to happen?


He does seem more comfortable making deals with his fellow New Yorker Chuck Schumer than he does Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan. But Republicans in Congress almost shrugged this off this week. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell said, in his own dry way, we look forward to seeing the president's own legislative proposal. But this also does seem to be the first time in this tentative deal on the DREAMers that Donald Trump did something that could possibly alienate his base.

Well, that's a good point. I mean, what about his base?We have seen some reaction to this. What has it been?

This is splitting his base. Polls show that most Americans are sympathetic to the DREAMers. Majorities favor letting them stay, even large numbers of Republicans, but not the president's hardcore base. And we saw this week on Twitter some Trump supporters burning their Make America Great Again hats. We saw the headlines in Breitbart, the "alt-right" website run by his former political adviser, Steve Bannon. The headline said "Amnesty Don. "We're now going to find out how much of his base is what I call the Fifth Avenue voters, people who will stick with him no matter what. You know, he famously said, I could stand on Fifth Avenue and shoot someone and not lose any voters.

Right.


I don't know how long people's memories are about that, Jackie, and I raised that because it seems that most people seemed to have understood that President Obama inherited this economic crisis, and yet there is a question as to how long they will allow him to enjoy the good feeling of support before they turn on him. . .

Right.

If things don't turn in the economy quickly.

Well, that's right. You know, we're all hemming and hawing about this package. All will be forgotten. What people will remember is whether or not they felt like it worked. I think, you know, all the polls suggest now that the people really know the he did inherit this. He has - there's no blame for it and it's a, you know, nobody really knows what to do, they're just sort of experimenting much as Franklin Roosevelt did, you know 70 years ago. And - but I think that he definitely has to be seen as competent and that was a big rap against George Bush, that overtime people of the overwhelming majority of Americans just thought he was proven incompetent in handling the economy.


You know, I'm not sure exactly where the cuts will take place. I know they've got several issues in mind. I think it's definitely a reflection upon the times right now, and how difficult the environment is for financial service firms.

You wrote in your piece today that the bonus pool is still the sixth largest on record. How much money was it overall?

Overall, it was 18. 4 billion, but it was down from about 33 billion last year. So it's a decline, but it's still, like you said, the sixth largest, so there's been thoughts that the past compensations have gotten a little excessive. So there's definitely an argument that that was the case.

And all of this in the wake of a bonus scandal at Merrill Lynch. What's been going on there?


As soon as we saw it, there's no mistaking it, Mr.  Fernandez told the New York Post. It's basically a miniature version of the shark you see in the movie "Jaws. "And Mr.  Fernandez and his fishing buddies were in a boat not far off 116th Street. Close enough, as he said, that we could still see the colors of the bathing suits of the people on the beach.

The great white that Steve Fernandez snagged turned out to be an 80 pound baby shark. The shark's mother, who probably weighs about 600 pounds, was swimming only a little further away. Great white sharks are apparently protected by New York State regulations. The authorities consider sharks too big to fail so the fisher people snapped a few shark selfies and slipped their catch back into the see. A great white shark in far Rockaway, Queens - well, why not?They say you can find at least one of everything somewhere in New York. But wouldn't you think the sharks would swim closer to Wall Street?

(Singing) Baby there's a shark in the water. There's something underneath my bed. Oh, please believe, I said. Baby there's a shark in the water. I caught them barking at the moon. You better get here soon.

V.  V.  Brown. You're listening to NPR News.


From NPR News, it's Day to Day. A trip to the grocery store is not going to get any cheaper anytime soon. The Agricultural Department now forecasts a four to five percent increase in food prices next year. That is in addition to a five to six percent increase this year. Joining us now is John Dimsdale from Marketplace. John, how unusual is it for food prices to rise so fast?

Yeah, well, food inflation this year is the worst it's been in 20 years. Usually, you know, food prices go up in the 2 or 3 percentage range every year, but we're looking at some very dramatic increases this year, especially when you look at specific foods. Eggs, for example, are up 14 percent this year according to the Ag Department, cereals and baked goods almost 10 percent, dairy products too, fruits and vegetables, they're all up in the 5 or 6 percent range this year.

Breakfast is going to be a serious problem.

Usually, when we hear about these increases in food costs, energy costs, weather problems are the ones to blame. But haven't those problems gotten somewhat better lately?


The response that I'd make to that is a couple of things. Part of it is a culture clash. In the West, we are very fetishistic about originality. We want to touch the object that the master touched. This goes back to the days of reliquaries when people had bits and pieces of saints that they carried around with them. The old saw in the East, as it's my grandfather's knife, I replace the handle. My father replaced the blade. It's my grandfather's knife.

For people in other parts of the world, the role of objects is not to somehow through the object itself bring you close to history. It is a visual cue that provides memories of history. The history and heritage resides in the mind. And that's what these reconstructions can certainly provide and have provided for hundreds and hundreds of years. Indeed, most of the sites in Sicily today are 19th century reconstructions.

I never knew that. I mean, I've been to Syracuse and all over Sicily and I was seeing reconstructions?

Absolutely. If you were in Syracuse, you certainly did. Naxos is a very good original site, but many of the other sites are significantly reconstructed.


Well, this ongoing and developing saga between singers Chris Brown and Rihanna. The president's proposed stimulus package is getting kicked around online as well. This is from the blog Political Season. He writes: Half of America is very weary of the bailout, and the other half loathes it, and nobody understands the logic going into it. Is it just me or would it have made a whole lot more sense for there to have been some public disclosure so that people understood the urgency and the emergency involved?

And this is from the blog Cob(ph): Like the woman who was pregnant when she voted for Obama because she thought he'd change America's health-care system in time for her baby, a lot of people are going to be disappointed to find that the stimulus plan is not going to be as broad and timely as the economy will be wiping out jobs.

And after today's developments, they are probably going to be even more confused in terms of what's about to happen. What can people find out on our Web site this week, Geoffrey?

Well, we've got two recent in-studio performances, one from Maisha, another one from Asha. They're both female singers who go by one name.


Hi, Ira, how are you?

Hi there. So Curiosity took its first little wheels, it rocked, and it rolled today, or this week, rolling around.

It did. Yeah, it did. A couple days ago we drove backwards and forwards both, just to test out that the wheels, the motors would work and that the wheels were all in good shape. And so it was our first tracks on Mars, so to speak.

And what was the purpose of its first laser beam?


Beppe Grillo of the Five Star Movement - which you mentioned - and the Democratic Party have the numbers to do that. And I think if the Grillo people are not - if they are wise and responsible, I think they should do something. They got a lot of votes, now they have to do something with that. Italy doesn't have the time to wait for another year, another election. The market cannot wait. Europe does not wait.

Yeah, they're not waiting, but Mr.  Grillo, so far, has been very uncooperative.

Look, I read something that Mr.  Grillo said today, and it is that he expect Mr.  Berlusconi - therefore the right - and the Democratic Party - therefore the left - to form a sort of grand coalition government, and say - and then there will be a disaster. And there will be - and I will - and there will be another election, and I will be a winner on the rubble - he used the expression macerie, that means the rubble - of Italy.

We don't want rubbles. We are a good country of Southern Europe, and we want to be a successful country. So I think that even the deputies of Mr.  Grillo are not happy with that. They're now in parliament. They've got a job to do. I'm sure they can find 10, 15 points that they share with the Democratic Party, and form some kind of government, and start from there. I mean, to just say, I want to destroy everything, so next time I've got to have(ph) 50 percent, it's totally irresponsible.


A whistleblower has told Congress that at least 25 people were granted security clearances by the Trump administration after career employees recommended denying those clearances. Those 25 include two current senior White House officials. The whistleblower's name is Tricia Newbold. She's an 18-year career employee who currently works at the Personnel Security Office. That's the office that recommends for or against granting security clearances to members of the administration. She gave these details in private testimony to the House Oversight Committee last month.

Joining me now is a member of that committee, Jamie Raskin, Democrat from Maryland. Welcome.

I'm delighted to be with you.

So Tricia Newbold flags three particular instances involving senior White House officials who are kept anonymous. Can you tell us a little more about these officials who were initially denied security clearances but those decisions were overruled?


So to set the stage for this, the Democrat at the head of the House Intelligence Committee says that Joseph Maguire - now, he's the acting director of national intelligence - says that he's been instructed by a higher authority to not turn over the complaint. In your view, is that valid?

Well, under the statute, it is not. But the question then becomes, what is the proper role of the IG?And is the IG simply a free agent within the executive branch of the government, responsible to no one?- which would be a strange situation.

So what I'm telling you, Audie, is that this issue, if pushed to the limit - which it looks like it's going to be - raises the question of whether the - there's a separation of powers issue here. The IG has to be something other than a free agent. He was put in place under a statute designed to assist the Congress in its oversight role, but he's not a congressional employee. He's not a congressional - he's not a legislative employee.

But he is a watchdog, no?And should that. . .

He's a watchdog.


So this is the second year that the numbers are up. What kind of numbers are we talking about?

We are reporting four hectares of overwintering colonies. That's 9. 1 acres. That is the area that they occupy, so that is indeed very good news compared to last year where we only had a little bit over one hectare.

You've been out in the field with them. Just describe for our listeners what - if they haven't been able to see them, what these monarch butterflies look like when they come to stay in Mexico.

Once they arrive to Michoacan - which is the name of the state where the forests are and the state of Mexico - they congregate on fir trees.

High up in the mountains - I mean, it's quite a steep climb to get there.


Yeah. And the police have actually been very open about this, and they've done a number of internal investigations. And they believe if everything had gone absolutely properly and correctly, they could've been there 16 minutes earlier. Part of the problem here, though, because they have taken something some - a fair amount of criticism I thought was unfair, They didn't have a plan for this because why would you?I mean, who sits around and dreams up a plan in a country with a miniscule violent crime rate to expect that someone's going to blow up Central Oslo and then drive out to a youth summer camp on an island and start gunning people down?

I mean, that's not going to rank high in the probability scale. There was a fair amount of distance to cover, and they had a problem with the boat. You know, I spent some time with a police officer named Hakon Hval, who was one of the first to respond. He had worked in that district, the North Buskerud District for, I believe, eight years at that point, and he'd never been to Utoya. There had never been a reason to go to Utoya. But he was driving one of the boats, and he turned to pick up some Delta commandos. And when they all got in the boat, the bow of the boat pushed out on some rocks and was grounded. So to get the bow up, they shuffled to the back and the stern just. . .

Flooded the engine, yes.

Yeah.


I'm Tony Cox, and this is NEWS AND NOTES. On today's Africa update, is Somalia the forgotten crisis?Plus, Spain indicts 40 Rwandan military officers for genocide. And HIV positive men get arrested in Egypt. For more, we've got Bill Fletcher. He is a Senior Scholar with the Institute for Policy Studies and former president of TransAfrica Forum. Bill, nice to talk to you again.

I'm glad to be back.

Let's start with Somalia. United Nations Agency UNICEF says the lives of up to 15,000 children are at risk in Somalia unless emergency aid arrives in the next few weeks. It also says children in Somalia are more at risk than children anywhere else in the world. Now since fighting in the capital Mogadishu began nearly six months ago, thousands have fled the city and are living in refugee camps. They are facing starvation and disease. Question number one: Why does Somalia have such a pressing humanitarian crisis right now?

Well, as you know, Somalia has been in a state of almost constant turmoil since 1991 when Siad Barre was overthrown and a clan-based civil war unfolded. And the Somali state, there was no government. It basically collapsed and had been non existent basically until the union of Islamic Courts - an Islamist group - took over power years ago.


Senator Clinton is showing signs of being very interested in having the second slot on the ticket, whether or not ultimately she really wants to be vice president. I think she wants to have the salute that goes with having that job offered. Even if she chooses not to take it, and perhaps there would be good reasons for her to go either way, she would like to have the salute to her efforts and her constituencies that's implied by the offer.

Does that salute include money?

Well, she does have a campaign debt. I don't think that it's a crippling debt, and the Clintons have their own ability to either cover that debt or to raise money on their own. But they do need to get that money raised by the end of the summer. Otherwise, it's not going to be retireable under the current fundraising rules. So she needs to get it done soon, and she could use some help with that. Barack Obama could provide that support with his online fundraising base of a million and a half contributors.

All right, Ron. Thanks again.


Has the United States done this before - taken back citizens who have some connection to ISIS fighters?

We know of one previous case. That's of Samantha El Hassani and her four children, who were repatriated to the U. S.  She's now standing trial in Indiana in a federal court, accused of providing material support to terrorism. Although, she's pleading not guilty, saying, you know, her husband dragged her to Syria. The U. S.  has said that they want to take back citizens. And President Trump has even urged in a tweet for other countries to take their citizens back. But it's not a blanket acceptance of people from Syria. The State Department says they're looking at the individuals on a case-by-case basis. And there is the ongoing controversial case of Hoda Muthana. She was born in New Jersey. She's been previously issued with U. S.  passports, but the U. S.  is challenging her citizenship status because her father is Yemeni.

As you point out, this is not just about U. S.  citizens. Tens of thousands of people went to Syria and Iraq to join ISIS. How are other countries handling this with their own citizens?

Well, as you say, it's a huge problem. So we're looking at about 46 other countries who are having to deal with this at the moment. And there's 13,000 women and children in the camps in Syria as well as the men in prisons. Some people have - some countries have taken their citizens back, like Kazakhstan and Sudan. But a lot of countries in Europe are saying, you know, we don't want these people back. The U. K.  has gone as far as stripping some people of citizenship.


. . . And she really went for the eyes. But besides that first thought, my sister was a genius. She was just a creative person all around. And when I came into the world, my sister kind of took me by my hand and was like, OK, you know, our family didn't have a lot of money, but this is how you have fun - and just showed me how to use my imagination, how to be creative.

On this album, Brittany Howard talks about how she became herself - the artist, but also the person.

(Singing) My grandmama's a maid. My momma was brave to take me outside, because momma is white and daddy is black. . .

This song is called "Goat Head. "It's about a racist incident that her parents experienced. It's also about what it meant to be a biracial kid in Alabama in the 1990s. Growing up, Brittany had a lot of questions.


This is WEEKEND EDITION from NPR News. I'm Scott Simon. General Abdel Fattah el-Sisi has had a rapid career rise. He was appointed Egypt's defense minister after the Arab Spring outpouring by Egypt's first freely elected president, the Muslim Brotherhood's Mohamed Morsi. But just a year later, General Sisi helped oust Mr.  Morsi and then he began to run the country. Now, his title is Field Marshal Sisi, the top military post. And just this past week, he took the next step to becoming Egypt's next president. The possible rise of a new military strongman raises questions about if the Arab Spring put Egypt on a path of democracy and civilian rule or more authoritarianism. Samer Shehata joins us. He's a political scientist at University of Oklahoma, and he joins us from the studios of KGOU in Norman, Oklahoma. Samer, thanks very much for being with us.

Pleasure to speak to you.

Why is a field marshal, according to various surveys, so popular in Egypt?

He's popular for a number of reasons. One, there were many people, of course, who were opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood and Mr.  Morsi before he became president. And of course it was a disastrous year in office. And there are many people who, as a result of all of that, are longing for stability and security. And the idea of a military general running the show is reassuring.


Most Americans agree Congress should do something to try to end gun violence. There is wide support for a range of ideas, including keeping tabs on or limiting who can get a gun and making it easier for police and family members to temporarily take guns away from people who may hurt themselves or others - what's known as red flag laws. There's more division on other proposals. We all - we know all of this because of a new NPR/PBS NewsHour/Marist poll.

NPR senior political editor and correspondent Domenico Montanaro has dug into the numbers. He joins us now. Hey, Domenico.

Hey, Ailsa.

OK. So I want to start where there is some agreement. Let's just start positive for now. What does this poll tell us?


And now we're going to move from talking with mental health experts to someone who has lived addiction. Jonny W.  lost almost everything to a gambling addiction. Thank you for coming in and being with us.

Thank you for having me here today.

Well, you know, let's start at the beginning. When did you start gambling?

Mr.  W. : Well, I started at the ripe old age of about 12-years-old. And at that particular time, it was just a matter of fun and hanging out with my friends.


So this is all being done because the government's in debt?

Well, that was sort of the impetus for all of this. They have brought in a lot of revenue. And the government, anticipating that some people would say, hey, it can't be worth your time and effort to go after these small, old debts. The process of going after them's going to cost you more than you bring in. So they've done an analysis that actually shows that they are bringing in more money than it costs to go make the collections. So to that end, they say that they're saving the taxpayers money.

When I asked the Social Security folks who came up with this idea to go after these old debts, they said, well, go talk to Treasury. I went to Treasury. They said, well, go talk to Congress. I went to Congress. They said, oh, it had to be somebody back in Treasury or somewhere in the bureaucracy. So no one is willing to step up and take credit for this. And now that this story has appeared, there's kind of a circling the wagons and it's not - no one wants to be associated with this at this point.

Marc Fisher, who's senior editor at The Washington Post. Thanks so much for being with us.

Thanks, Scott.


One night in the spring of 1982, a 9-year-old Issac Bailey was asleep in a room with a few of his brothers when the 22-year-old brother he adored, Herbie Moochie Bailey, shot and killed an innocent man, a store owner he'd robbed named James Bunch.

It, like - my sense really - actually changed on, like, everything for me.

Issac was already struggling with a speech disorder.

I stuttered - (stuttering) - like that. It worsened greatly. And so I actually think that is one sort of reason why that I actually still stutter now.


Hey, how are you?

I am great. So, first of all we keep using the phrase G8. What is the G8?

The Group of Eight, which was for many years the Group of Seven, are the eight largest economies on the planet. So, the United States, Britain, France, Italy, Japan, and Russia are, for example, G8 countries.

So, when people from these nations meet, and talk about an African agenda, what do they bring to the table, and what's on the table this time around?

Well, I'll try not to give you a cynical answer, but basically the Group of Eight meet to discuss the world's economy, for the most part that's what they're supposed to be talking about. But over the last number of years there's been greater attention to the question of Africa, and issues of economic development. And there's been a lot of pressure on the Group of Eight, to come forward with financial assistance, changes in the relationship - economic relationships, in order to promote development. And so, once again that came to the table this time in addition to sort of a review of what the G8 has accomplished and not accomplished towards reducing poverty.


Far be it for me to sort of put words in the first lady's mouth, but I think that what that shows to me anyway, as an observer, is that these dress codes are so ingrained that I would imagine for Melania potentially it just would not occur to her in a public appearance to not be wearing heels.

You know, I think certainly we see the same with the royal family in the U. K. , Kate Middleton coming out of the hospital each time after having her babies wearing these enormous heels. And, you know, womankind across the world, I think, was wincing looking at those photos, thinking, oh, God, that's the last thing you want to be wearing when you've just given birth.

And I do think that we tend to associate high heels with making an effort, with being appropriate and no more so than for these figures who are - have the eyes of the world on them.

Before we let you go, you know I'm going to ask you, what are you wearing now?


Well, to me, in my personal opinion, all superhero comics are somewhat escapist. The modern stuff is a little more based in reality, a little more about personal narratives. Just the fact that he's into superhero comics as opposed to, you know, Robert Crumb or somebody, that says something. He's not into the subculture.

Yeah, he's not into the really out there stuff.

Right.

Spider Man, though, I mean, he's an outlier, right?


Well, I was abused by a priest when I was a child. And it caused me a great deal of difficulty with my life afterwards. I had a lot of problems with anxiety and depression.

How old were you when it happened?

I had just turned 13. I was in a children's hospital. And the priest who assaulted me was the Catholic chaplain of the hospital. And he also took indecent photographs, which had a lasting effect on me.

You were one of two sexual abuse survivors on the Pontifical Commission for the Protection of Minors. Yet you resigned March 1. Can you tell us why?

I did because I accepted the appointment to the commission in the hope that the church was really beginning to show, you know, a sincere wish to change. And after three years, I resigned on some specific issues. But, basically, it was the resistance from some quarters in the Vatican to actually change.

Does it surprise you that someone as high up as Cardinal Pell has been accused?


Things have been added during the years. There is what's called the SkyLine level, which is a public event space built at the 100-foot level. They've also built a building kind of around the base that has the gift shop. Otherwise, it's pretty much intact.

Mm-hmm. And it was built with the science fair in mind as part of a larger ground. Part - it would fit into the larger works of the whole world's fair here.

That's right. It was actually late coming in the fair. They realized in the process, they needed a symbol for the fair, and they didn't have one. They didn't have a means of financing it. They didn't have a location for it. The Space Needle is where it is because the city managed to find a small piece of property that they could sell to a private developer to build the Space Needle. And it happened to be the perfect spot.

You talked about the structure itself having a very feminine shape to it. But anybody who has looked at this thing swears that it looks like a UFO at the top there landing or taking off.


What seems to be happening is that the numbers stay about the same, but that the types of people who are killed are actually, you know, have avalanche experience, are expert skiers who have taken avalanche training. There was this case of a woman, Olivia Buchanan, who died on Tuesday around Silverton, Colorado. And she had, you know, avalanche level-two training, was actually studying snow science at Montana State University.

So snow safety experts are now focusing more than ever on what are called human factors rather than trying to, you know, teach people how to analyze the snow to say whether the snow stability is good. So these are questions like, you know, are you being lured into a trap by groupthink?Do you want to impress your friends?And more often than not in an avalanche fatality, several of these factors are going to be present.

Are experienced skiers just pushing themselves more?

Some of it is just in the numbers. You know, there are more people than ever heading out into the backcountry. But the other piece of this is that skiing on tract powder in the backcountry is just like the most intoxicating form of skiing. You know, the images that we see in ski magazines, people flying down these high-alpine slopes. I mean, there's just nothing else like it.


Well, on Iran, there's been reports in the past week that he is moving to set up a U. S.  interests office in Iran, which is not quite an embassy, but it's sort of a transition to an embassy. He has - the Treasury Department for the past couple of years has begun a very fine-tuned sanctions program focusing on getting international banks to stop doing business with Iran. So, a little bit of sticks and carrots is happening already, and that may create the basis for a more comprehensive approach.

And finally, let's talk about Russia. Relations were frayed between the United States and Russia over the summer during the Georgia contretemps. And I'm wondering, is there anything there that Senator Obama can do, anything happening now to ease his path to restoring diplomatic relations?

Well, you know, much of this seems to be resting on this plan to put missile defenses in the Czech Republic and Poland. President Medvedev of Russia has said, if you do that, we're going to put short-range missiles in Kaliningrad.

It seems to me that Obama is not so enthusiastic about missile defense as Bush was. He has said, yeah, I'm in favor of the program if it can be proved to work. Well, it hasn't been proved to work, so I think he can work out a deal with Russia where we gently back off of missile defense; they back off everything else. I think there are some diplomatic possibilities here that have not been explored by the Bush administration because of their doctrinaire advocacy for missile defense.


Well, the first thing we did is we discussed with our veterans who had worked to install the Eternal Flame Memorial, this particular feature to this park, and tried to work out some sort of an agreement. And it was agreed that if we could keep the flame going, we would do that, but that it may require us to shut it down for a short period of time while we re-engineer or figure out what we can do to make this work. Unfortunately, we're in a budget crunch, and every penny counts.

I understand that shortly after you got this bill, the flame went out for a little bit.

It was shut off for about a day and half, two days. It was shut off for a brief period of time. That's correct.

And veterans there in Bullhead City didn't take too kindly to that decision.


Where to begin the week in politics?The Mooch removed, the White House staff shaken - if not stirred - more leaks, a rally and more developments in the Russian investigation. In studio, we have Molly Ball, staff writer who covers politics for The Atlantic. Molly, thanks for being back with us.

I'm glad to be here.

Isn't that what we got in the news business?It's never dull, is it?

It really has not been. And in a way, this White House is really a gift to all of us in the journalistic community. When we might have traditionally been slacking off for the summer, particularly on the political beat - there's usually sort of a summer doldrums - but no, we have the bounty of news that seems to flood every week out of Washington.


One of the most interesting things that happens with couples, Farai, is that one's a spender and one's a saver, and that causes all kinds of problems. Because one person wants to squirrel away every extra penny, and then you've got the extravagant one. They've got to talk about it and make compromises.

And Michelle Singletary has a new book out which is great, talking about couples and money management, and there are a lot of other tools. But the first tip is just to have an honest conversation about what your money priorities are, how you spend your money, and what's important to you.

Thanks so much, Dr.  Malveaux.

Thank you.


Well, it first, you know, it was amphoras of wine coming in from the Etruscan area. The wine press is made out of local limestone. So that indicates that they are, you know, setting up their industry right from the materials that they have at hand. They probably need some help from the Etruscans to lay out the vineyards.

They have to have the grape vine, the domesticated grape vine that was ultimately domesticated in the Near East, that has to be transplanted probably from central Italy over to southern France, and then they have to be - the southern French have to be tutored at first in how to lay out the vineyards and how to make the wine.

How do you get - so they're bringing the roots back, the living vines, with them in a boat?

That's what we think. I mean, we have examples where grape vines are found in moist soil in the hull of the ship, and that would be probably the way it was done.


No. We banned those in 2001 after the disastrous 2000 presidential recount. And fortunately for the state is - part of the reform packages passed after 2000 were a number of standards, methods and clear ways in which to perform recounts. And, lucky us, we now probably have three statewide recounts in Florida, as well as three state legislative seats - a record six in the state in one election.

Oh, my word. Well, how close is the governor's race, Marc?

The governor's race - I would like to use one of those old phrases, you know, the old cliche. It's about as tight as a tick in a rug or something. But it's not as tight as the Senate race. The governor's race is about 36,000 ballots almost on-the-nose apart - the margin. The - in the end, the margin is 0. 44 percent. And it takes 0. 5 percent - that is half a percent - to go to recount. So the governor's race in Florida's probably going to recount.

And what about the Senate race?


So they're looking for Joe to be effective as a rhetorician, as a guy who can sell a line, who can connect with an audience and also connect in a debate. He's an excellent debater.

Just as we told Farai Chideya, she's going to be very busy, you're going to be very busy as well this week. Thank you so much, Ron.

Thank you, Tony.

Ron Elving is NPR's senior Washington editor. He joined me from our special NPR studio in Denver, Colorado.


Yes. So I had shut what was left of the door, and I go outside. The waves are, like, 7, 8 feet above me, crashing over my head.

How did you survive that?

So a few days before, my sister made me promise to get a life vest. I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll get one. But I didn't. And I was removing a dock ladder just so it wouldn't get damaged in the storm. And I was removing it, and a life vest floated up to me.

A life vest just came to you. That's incredible.


And here's her plan. You get your kids into their PJs. You tuck them in with a math equation on top of their bedtime story. And you can find a simple - a sample of her bedtime math puzzles on our website at sciencefriday. com/bedtimemath. Laura Overdeck is here with us. Welcome to SCIENCE FRIDAY.

Hi. Thank you.

This is a cute little book. It's a big book. It's nice. You think you can teach math to kids while they're getting their bedtime story?

Oh, I think absolutely. Where this came from was that my husband and I, we like math, and when our first child was 2, we started rolling in a little math problem with her book at night, just, you know, started with counting the ears and noses on her stuffed animals. It got tougher as she got older. We've rolled in a second child, a third child. And what we found was that, in our house by now, math is like dessert. It's a treat. . .

Is that right?

It's a treat the kids want. They actually ask for their math problem at night.


Kevin Maguire's associate editor of the Daily Mirror and a long time reporter at Westminster. Thanks so much for being with us.

Pleasure, Scott.

Let's start with the Conservative line up. We hear a couple of names over here - Michael Gove and Theresa May.

Yeah, absolutely, Theresa May, the home secretary, the interior minister, is the favorite now after the shock withdrawal of Boris Johnson, the former mayor of London. He was the clear front-runner, but he pulled out after Michael Gove, the justice secretary who was his campaign manager, actually decided he wanted to run himself. And in the Conservative Party, which, of course, they're not just electing a leader, they're electing the next prime minister of the United Kingdom.


But David, wasn't that what the banks were supposed to be doing themselves, getting that money that they were given, to - and lending it out to homeowners, to small-business owners?

Yes, exactly. And essentially, they took that money, and a lot of the banks hoarded it. Some actually paid out bonuses to their executives; others paid out dividends to their shareholders. It really angered a lot of lawmakers. There was actually a report out by a congressional oversight committee that criticized the current Treasury for not tracking the money and not forcing banks to lend out this money or for helping homeowners. Geithner is basically responding to those criticisms and doing those very things.

So, what's his plan to make sure that the oversight is improved by the Treasury Department?

Well, one idea he's considering is to create a separate bureau within Treasury. It would be easier to track the performance of the rescue program if it was separated out from the rest of the Treasury. That's the belief. But in addition to that, they are really thinking about creating whole - entire new programs that would force banks to reveal what they are doing with rescue money as well as support some of the markets that finance credit cards, auto loans, you know, municipal bonds. These are new programs that haven't yet existed.


It has truly been a season of hurricanes. The one called Ike slammed into the Gulf Coast over the weekend. Thousands of people boarded up their homes and fled inland. Late last week, authorities began warning residents in the low-lying areas that to try to stick it out would bring certain death.

We've got Daniel Perry to give us his take on Ike. He's a regular contributor to our Bloggers' Roundtable. His blog is ThereAlready. blogspot. com. He's also a resident of Houston, Texas, which was in the path of the hurricane. But he and his family decided to stay at their home and brace themselves for Ike's impact. Daniel, thanks for coming on.

Thank you, Farai.

So how - first of all, how are you doing?


They have indeed. They've been subject to very serious, tough sanctions in the past not just from the United States but from the entire international community. That's involved restrictions on their energy sector, their banking sector and an array of other economic sectors.

How have they gotten around them?

Well, in some instances, they haven't been able to. So during the period of most intensive, multilateral sanctions on Iran - this is 2012 to 2015 - they had great difficulty evading sanctions. It happened here and there, certainly when it came to sales of oil, certain cargoes or bartering - financial bartering - some smuggling activities. But the fear now is that, in an instance where there's unilateral sanctions on Iran, it may have ample opportunity to cheat and evade these sanctions.

Unilateral meaning, of course, just the United States. So it'll be tougher for the sanctions to have any effect if, for example, China or Russia and, let's say, Germany don't go along.

Right, exactly. So right now the European Union, in general, and the E3, in particular, have - that being the United Kingdom, France and Germany - have expressed an interest in maintaining their commitment to the deal. And that means continuing to give Iran economic relief promised to it under the deal. That means potentially violating U. S.  sanctions or creating ways for European companies to not abide by U. S.  sanctions.

And how does the U. S.  respond, at least under this administration?


I am.

How has that affected your feelings about gun registration and gun control?

Well, you know, I mean, I'm also a former paramedic, so I have treated lots and lots of gunshot victims and I have investigated lots and lots of gunshot victims, including homicides, obviously. So, it has a profound effect. I mean, I understand what we're really talking about in the literal sense. I've been shot at. I get the trauma of all that. This isn't an academic exercise for me.

And that leads you to conclude what about guns?


You know what, they provide me with so much more than just shoes and things. They have an entire family atmosphere at the Jordon brand. I'm the first woman of the Jordan brand. And they've been very helpful and instrumental and supportive in things that I've been able to do in terms of going out and giving away shoes, donating shoes and donating equipment to other people. And I donated some to a team down North Carolina, a basketball team down north Carolina. And I'm actually in the process of starting an essay contest for people with physical disabilities. And the winners, we're going to give out a hundred pair of Jordan sneakers. So we've done a lot of things in the community in terms of speaking engagements, in terms of both promoting my community efforts and for them to be able to outreach into another aspect of the community in the disabled community.

You're in the 100, 200, 400 meters. Those are short races. What are your competitors like?And do you guys have any camaraderie?You're competitors for a while, but do you guys talk?Do you guys compare stories?

It's funny, because I hold the world record in the 100, 200 and 400 meters. And so I think a lot of times people hope that I don't show up.

So that can be very interesting. But I mean I try - I look at it like one of these days will come and I'll have to hang my spikes up. So I try to as much as possible impart as much wisdom as I can to, you know, to my fellow competitors.


And they don't take into account what other areas of knowledge are developing. I think perhaps a solution that could be sought, one of many, is that the humanities consider colonizing the sciences. And what do I mean by that?I mean that humanity lives in a minute intersection of sensibilities, that is sense, the powers of sense; of cognitive patterns, the way we think.

We're very, very specialized, and we live in only a small segment of the whole universe of possibilities. I'm not talking about expanding into science fiction. I'm just talking about gaining a perspective that could somehow be - or validated by what we're learning from science at an exponentially increasing rate and making some better use of it in the creative and interpretive processes of the humanities.

That's a long speech, but you asked a difficult question.

Well, I'm actually - you brought up something in my mind. I'm thinking you brought up what C. P. Snow's "Two Cultures" argument was, you know, that they don't talk to each other, you know?


Well, if it's $135 million cut this year, I can envision an entire university being closed.

Meaning having to shut an entire campus.

We have three universities in our system and 13 community colleges all across the state. And so 135 million would be one of our universities and all of our community campuses.

What else in the immediate term are you considering doing or are you already doing to comply with this budget cut?


But what nobody really knows is what happened beforehand. How did we get there?What did it take, you know, to stand up against two major institutions, to stand up against law enforcement agencies, multiple law enforcement agencies that had botched prior investigations and silenced victims?And that was what I really wanted to tell.

And it was hard to see at times because it was perpetrated by a physician. In the book, you write about how you first realized that abuse was taking place. It took you a while to understand what was happening to you because it was under the guise of medical care.

You write, quote, while I knew something had happened to me that was wrong, "I didn't know yet that the penetration and everything I'd written off as pelvic floor therapy were anything but legitimate. I was, however, certain that no one would care about a teenage girl getting groped. Anyone could look around and know that. The sexual harassment and objectification of women were constantly downplayed. "

Rachael, it sounds like there were a couple of difficult things happening here - first, acknowledging the abuse to yourself and then thinking that you wouldn't be believed even if you told someone.


Well, and if you believe the federal government or other arms of the federal government, children are not supposed to be held accountable for their parents' debts. But the Social Security Administration and the Treasury have found a way around that thanks to a one-line change they made in the 2008 Farm Bill.

And that line is?I suspect it has nothing to do with wheat or barley, yeah?

Nothing at all. Basically, what it said is the government, which previously had not been allowed to go out and collect debts that were more than 10 years old, now can go back as far as they'd like - decades back. And in the last couple of years, they've been aggressively doing that to the tune of many hundreds of millions of dollars.

And you've talked to several people who've been hit by this, right?


Her father liked the electronic things, which were behind locked cabinets. But she grabbed a slick stereo magazine and managed to slip into one of her boots. It would be a way to warm him for taking the bus by herself. By now she was thirsty and rounded a corner to open a fridge and grab an iced tea in a bottle that felt so good in her hands. It was One Universe Green Tea, which the label said was good for the immune system and for Octavia's skin. No one had stopped her. No one had spoken to her. It was smooth sailing. All for one and one for all.

So is there a straight line from that to piracy or just adolescence?

(Laughter). You think shoplifting is the gateway drug that eventually leads people to board other people's ships?It could be. I think the fantasy of wanting things and wanting to evade the law is certainly something that shoplifters and pirates, in this case, have in common.

I have to ask this, Mr.  Handler. This is the first chance we've had to speak with you since you emceed the National Book Awards in November and made a watermelon joke. Did I say state that incorrectly?I didn't want to tell the whole joke, but if you want to. . .


Hi.

So tell us about these families. Who are they?

So we're talking about four adults. We have three Sri Lankans. Supun, Nadeeka are a couple. Ajith is a single male. And we also have a Filipina. Her name is Vanessa. And they have three children whose names I won't say out loud.

OK.  And how did they come to help Edward Snowden?

At the time that Mr.  Snowden was in Hong Kong, they were already asylum seekers established in Hong Kong. And he ended up staying with different people during, I believe, a two-week period before he left the territory.


If you ask the Tunisians in the streets what are their struggles daily, they will tell you economic problems. Tunisia is really facing tremendous challenges. We saw a decline of GDP per capita for Tunisians, which is unprecedented. Tunisians struggle in daily life. And then the currency is devaluating a lot. And so we are still really looking forward toward these elections if they could bring relief, economically speaking.

There are 26 candidates, more than even have run on the Democratic primary for president in the United States.

As surprising as it is. And I will tell you that in the beginning, there were actually about 90. But then only 26 made the legal requirements.

Are there any two or three who seem to be more prominent than the others right now?


And the bottom line is - I think it's a bold step because, you know, he's still is subject to the Presidential Records Information Act. So, you know, anything he does on that could in fact be subpoenaed. So - but he's used to using it. I think it's going to make him continue to have that comfort zone. I think he's probably going to be very cautious as to what messages he decides to use that for. But if people want to subpoena that he's got to go and have somebody pick up the milk maybe. . .

You know, I don't know.

The president's got a Black Ops BlackBerry. That's going to be really. . .

Yeah, but they did remove….


The founder and the all-female staff of the Vatican women's magazine have resigned abruptly citing a climate of distrust. Their publication has gotten attention for their recent work to expose the sexual abuse of nuns by priests. Those stories led to the rise of the hashtag #NunsToo. In a letter of resignation to the pope, the editorial board wrote that they believe there is a Vatican campaign to discredit them and put them under the control of men. And we have NPR's Sylvia Poggioli on the line from Rome.

Hi, Sylvia.

Hi, David.

They are accusing the Vatican of some very serious things there, it sounds like. Tell me more about what prompted this.


And why do you think Mr.  Mueller should be fired?

Well, I think there have been a number of instances when bias has been demonstrated within the Mueller probe; also, the manner in which the team has been put together, the relationship between Mr.  Mueller and Mr.  Comey; and then finally, some of the details of the intelligence memo that we hope is made public this week would seem to indicate that no prosecution could ever be brought from the Mueller probe. And thus, its utility has been outlived.

Could you cite a single example of bias?

Sure. Andrew Weissman, the No. 2 member of the Mueller probe, attended the Hillary Clinton election night party. You would think with all the talented prosecutors to be asked throughout the federal system, we could likely assemble a team without having to pick the people who were engaged in the 2016 election to the extent that they would be at one of the candidates' election night parties.


Our hope is that the cessation of violence is imperative if there is to be some semblance of normalcy in the election. If this rate of violence continues, then certainly there is no way we can have a free and fair election. We are hoping that when the various delegations of observers start arriving, we may see a decline into these violent activities of the regime and these rogue elements.

You have worked now with MTV to do PSAs that call for a free and fair election. Why did you decide to work with MTV on this?

Well, you know that the background actually started as some form of informal contact, then it developed into a contact with Dispatch group. So Dispatch, which is a youthful band, staged this concert on Zimbabwe. And we are now - I was in New York, I had a meeting with them, and that's how our relationship has developed.

Do you think that global youth, people not just in Zimbabwe, but, you know, in all the different places around the world that, for example, might plug in to public service announcement like this, or just people who are young and are listening to music and, you know, going online for their news, do you think that they can help advocate for the free and fair elections in Zimbabwe?


And the damage that has been done and that has been wrought does not appear to be facing any kind of true reconciliation or any kind of true reckoning. There's a lack of justice. There's a lack of accountability. And there's the presence of an incredible amount of impunity.

Well, take me into Syria. What are people feeling there now after these eight long years?

You know, it really depends on where you're situated and how you're situated. And a lot of Syrians are now outside of Syria. I, myself, haven't been back since 2013.

I think people right now are in a place of absolute exhaustion, whether they're, you know, see themselves as amongst the victors or not. It took an incredible toll. And the death and the destruction, as you've noted, is incredible.


So, number one, the Web site made a drastic change and a tremendous shift. It opened up transparency. It put a lot of ways for individuals to feel that they could be more empowered to have better access or a direct access, almost like an open Internet door to the administration. Number two, they looked to hire a chief technology officer for the administration, which has been done. They've actually checked that off of their list and that has never been a position within the White House to that level before.

And then, number three, I would say actually the stimulus package, you know, coming through with $7. 2 billion being placed specifically for broadband access in rural areas. Those are three key things - oh, and the fourth thing would be, actually redoing - re-upgrading rather the systems within the White House. Internet connectivity was extremely - is extremely slow there. Outdated computers, viruses, just issues with just the infrastructure of technology that was there left by the previous administration.

You know, that was going to be my next question because I understood as the new administration staff took their offices in the White House, what they found were computers that were - I suppose outdated and very slow and. . .

Yeah.

Not nearly as technologically advance that you would expect from the White House.


Yeah, yeah. Hopefully, you know?So whereas in America, you know, you sort of smoothed the edges and you've just put, you know, you've put makeup on. That's what you've done. We're still in the very, you know, you still see all of our imperfections. Whereas in America you try to put a lot of makeup, but the imperfections are still there. And I find that that's the most interesting thing for me.

The changes that we've seen in South Africa over those 17 years are little short of phenomenal.

Yes. It's been amazing. It was a bloodless revolution, you know, because the difference has been - in America, black people have been fighting for their freedom and for their identity and so on, but as a minority. In South Africa, you had a white majority rule, ruling over — I mean, this is Africa. This is the home of black. It was the black factory. So I mean this is, you know, it was a very different story and never before has there been a bloodless revolution in Africa.

Is there much of a tradition of comedy in South Africa, particularly tweaking the powers that be?You don't think of John Vorster. . .


First of all, as a citizen, every person who died there - it doesn't matter. Israeli or Palestinian - it's heartbreaking. But from the other side, just imagine you have to protect yourself. And I think Israel protected herself.

Weren't there are a lot of innocent people, though, and children certainly unarmed?

I don't know. I know that 60 people - or something like that - got killed. And it's heartbreaking. But 50 of them were terror members of the Hamas. This is what the Hamas said. But let's talk about art.

All right. What do you hope Americans will learn watching "Fauda"?


So it's worth pointing out the reason the special counsel did not indict the president was because he said Justice Department policy says you cannot indict a sitting president. What the president's lawyers then argued in this case is the president cannot even be investigated. And the judge said, no, that the investigation has to be allowed to go forward. And if it can't, it would mean not only the president, but - and I'm quoting here - any accomplices could escape being brought to justice.

Do we know of any accomplices?I mean, who might the judge have been referring to there?

So we don't know exactly. But we do know that the president's business is being examined for falsifying business records because those hush money payments - they were claimed to be a legal retainer, which they were not. Third parties are being examined as well. This is a major aspect of the DA's argument, which the court has now agreed with. You have a local prosecutor looking into local crimes, and he's saying, what?No one can be held to account if they did a crime with the president. If you extend this argument, the president could have actually shot someone on Fifth Avenue, the judge was implying. And if he did, no co-conspirators could be held to account if you went along with the Trump lawyers' arguments, according to the federal judge today.

So the Second Circuit has issued a stay. What happens next?


Yeah.

. . . We first went up there. But he and I got to be very close friends.

Bishop Woods remembers the friendship, the music and good food at the Gaston. But it also became a target for hate. On May 11, 1963, two bombs exploded near Dr.  King's room.

But he just happened to have gone home to visit his wife on that day. And the citizens were upset, thinking Dr.  King had been killed. But he hadn't been killed.

What happened to you that day?


So if we're negotiating in public, we're not really negotiating at all.

That's correct. What we're doing is playing chicken, all kinds of games with each other. It's just a mess. You know, whenever you get to the entitlements, and so everybody knows, I'm out of the Senate three years and a half, but I was there for 36 years, and much of my work was budgeting. If I were there, I would be right in the middle of this. You would have been hearing from me for the last two years, and you'd be tired of my voice.

And you, Neal, would have had me on so many times, you would have said I don't want you anymore.

Well, I doubt that, Senator.


Part of the problem is that you obviously need to deal with the security issues. But at the same time, that doesn't mean you put the human rights issues into the background. You can also raise human rights issues as you raise these security issues. You have to be able to walk and chew gum if you're going to practice international relations.

Yeah. You met North Korea's top nuclear negotiator in 2011. How did that go?I mean, how did you balance those concerns?

Well, the primary person I was - the reason that I was in North Korea at the time was to talk about the possibility of United States humanitarian assistance. North Koreans made a request. We were looking at the possibility of doing that. And our negotiations focused on that. On the other hand, there were meetings that we had and also time that we had after meetings or in connection with dinners and that kind of thing to raise human rights questions. You know, you don't start out by blasting them with the worst thing you can find. But there are ways that you can press them and push them and encourage them to accept the idea that human rights actually improves the standing of the regime if people like the government.

This administration eliminated the job you held. Do you think that matters?I mean, do you think this administration will even broach the issue of human rights?


It probably had more to do with Moore - Roy Moore - and his unique trainload of baggage. But it's still hard not to compare it to what happened back in 2010 when Scott Brown was elected in Massachusetts, taking Teddy Kennedy's seat. And this was at about the same point in President Obama's first term.

That really changed the mood on Capitol Hill. It did not stop the passage of Obamacare, but it signaled a big turnover in Congress in the next elections. And we could be heading into a correction here in the other direction under President Trump.

NPR's Ron Elving. Thanks so much.

Thank you, Scott.


Then on top of that, last year, there was this thing called the beast from the east, which was a deep freeze coming across Italy and Greece, and that destroyed a lot of trees. Olive trees are very hardy, but they can't take extreme cold. If it's below 10 degrees Fahrenheit for just a matter of hours, it can kill the tree. So Italian farmers these days are thinking they can't catch a break. This is a confluence of factors, which has led to an overall production of around 185,000 tons this season, which is not very good.

Is it really possible that Italy could run out of olive oil next month?

Well, you know, Italy is not as big, for example, a producer as Spain, you know, and we see a lot of headlines right now that says Italy will be forced to be an olive oil importer. Well, Italy is the largest olive oil importer in the world and always has been, but it has just a limited amount of its own production to go around. So what - I think it's really more a matter of Italy running out of stock, running out of stocks of its own olive oil. And all of the bottling that goes on there and the exporting that goes on in Italy will be using oils from other origins.

We have to ask in this day and age, is climate change affecting the Italian olive oil production industry?


I don't mind stipulating that you were more than an OK doctor.

(Laughter) Well, you know, I agree that I'm an OK doctor. And I feel very blessed to have been involved with some of the most complex surgical procedures in the history of the world.

Does that prepare you to be president of the United States?

Not in and of itself. But I think planning, utilizing a lot of resources and a lot of other people to do complex things - and even things that have never been done before - certainly helps. You know, sitting on corporate boards, learning how business works efficiently, all of these things give you a lot of skill sets. And I think it's a fallacy that only people in elected office can come up with solutions that solve our problems. I just think maybe there's a different paradigm.


You know, it's a tremendous feeling. You really feel like you have a view from the shoulders of generations. You know, I'm a fifth-generation member of the association, and we've been working for this moment implicitly since our founding and really explicitly since 1960. You know, just generations of activists registering people to vote. You know, suing local governments to make sure that blacks could run for various offices.

But you know, work has been done by generations with discipline to get us to a point where finally, 230 years after - 232 years after the founding of this republic, we have a multi-racial, multi-gender race. And it's incredible.

Let's go back to some of the practical issues because it strikes me that one of the people who certainly knows so much about politics, Donna Brazile, mentioned something about what can go wrong with the vote. In the year 2000, her sister encountered problems. She was asked by authorities to provide multiple forms of ID on her way to vote. And she called up Donna, and Donna, of course, was like, well, that's not the way things are supposed to work.

Right.


There are U. S.  citizens who've been caught up in these really devastating attacks. I can't give out more details at this time because of privacy concerns. But I think we're all just very shocked and saddened by the breadth of the attacks and how senseless they were, particularly targeting people as they worship this morning at Sunday services and were enjoying holiday meals at several of the big hotels.

Right - Easter day. Now, a decade ago, Sri Lanka ended an extremely violent civil war where large-scale suicide bombings were common. Do we know why this now after a relatively peaceful past 10 years?

That's a good question. We don't really have all the answers we want about who was behind these attacks. I don't believe they were linked to that conflict period. But for a country trying to recover, trying to achieve reconciliation among the ethnic and religious groups here, this is not going to support that effort.

Could you tell us more about the ethnic and religious makeup of Sri Lanka and whether those demographics are relevant to what is happening today?


What's your greatest regret?

Well, the greatest regret is that we lost the referendum - that I didn't prevail, that we could have fought, perhaps, a better campaign. We could have conducted, perhaps, a better negotiation. Perhaps the timing wasn't right - and that I didn't take the country with me on what I thought was a really important issue. And I resigned because I felt - I didn't fight the referendum as a sort of chairman - on the one hand, on the other hand, you decide. I was wholly on one side of the argument. And so I felt it was right to resign, having lost, because the country needed a new prime minister, a prime minister with a credibility to take us forward and deliver the outcome of the referendum.

But, of course, you know, I will to my dying day wonder whether there was something more we could have done to have secured what I thought was the right outcome, which was to keep Britain in, but to recognize we were, in many ways, the odd one out.

OK.


Now, that's something that would be the kind of final explanation if we could rule out everything else, and of course the big job is ruling out everything else. So in our paper we have a number of possibilities, but again, none of them are easy. None of them are simple.

So if you wanted to have ordinary dark matter that has no stickiness, you would have to come up with some very convoluted mechanism for removing this cold dark matter from the galaxies that it loves so much. I mean, it just loves hanging out with these galaxies, doesn't want to let go of them under the cold, collision-less dark matter theory, which is our main theory that I think we all accept.

Yeah, but if you stick with the stickiness idea, then you have to give up the other ideas, that you think you know what dark matter is.

Yeah, so we actually don't know what dark matter really is. These are all theories. Dark matter is not part of our standard model of physics. The standard model accounts for protons and electrons and neutrons. But one of the things that's really exciting about dark matter, that makes it one of the deepest mysteries of the cosmos, is that we know - we are pretty sure that dark matter is not part of the standard model.


Well, responses have ranged from one person who said Biden was a great pick to another who said Obama made a terrible decision. But it's interesting, Joe Biden was the top choice of our unscientific online poll. We asked who Obama should pick as his VP, and 40 percent of all respondents chose him. So despite how people feel about Biden, I think a lot of people assumed that Obama would pick him. And Hillary Clinton interestingly was the second choice.

Really?As we get close - well, not closer to the convention, we are at the convention now - have you noticed an increase in the online traffic?Because I know people have really been paying attention. But now that we're here, are they really into it?

They are really into it. And everyone has an opinion. And everyone wants to make their opinion known. And that's just what they're doing.

Now, what are some of the things that we're going to be looking forward to, that our bloggers can look forward to on our website this week as part of our convention coverage?

Well, through npr. org, we have complete convention schedule so people know when to set their TiVos. We also have profiles of all the key Democratic players and we're also going to pose photo feeds from the convention floor. This morning, Michelle Obama was getting ready to make her speech and she was testing out the mics. And so we have some photos of that.


In some ways, they're almost a young person's poem - some of them. The thing that I really like is her gestures towards image and metaphor that really shape her whole career. So there's this line that particularly moves me.

Say I am the air - I break - or say I am a spool unwinding. I am the spool that unwound while riding the sky down.

And I just think that's incredibly beautiful and evocative.

Erin Singer - she's an assistant professor of English at Louisiana Tech. You can see those poems in the next issue of the Fugue Literary Journal of the University of Idaho. Thank you so much.


. . . it climbs up the string you put out for it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So they - just for a little anatomy, a little review of that. The cucumber has the plant part, but then it also has these climbing appendages. And when it's growing, it sorts of swings them around, grabs on to a support. And when it does that, something changes in that tendril, and it starts to curl. And that is exactly what physicist Sharon Gerbode in Harvey Mudd College and biologist Joshua Puzey at Harvard and some colleagues looked at and published this week in the journal, Science.

Why does that cucumber tendril curl?And, you know, you might be thinking, well, whatever. But Charles Darwin was interested in this question, you know.

Yeah, yeah. It's an old question. You know, if you grow stuff, you know that the stuff, you know, goes out and curls around things.


What's a fuel hedge?Explain that.

A fuel hedge is basically a financial contract that you buy in the commodity market where you essentially pre-buying fuel. So Southwest CEO, Gary Kelly, back in 2003, as the U. S.  was preparing to go to war in Iraq, just decided that the war in the Middle East wasn't probably good for oil prices, and he went out and bought a lot of oil ahead of time. Pre-bought it, and that has paid off in billions of dollars of profits for the airline.

And this continues from 2003?Do they continue to buy fuel ahead?Because the price of oil over the last year, I mean, it keeps going up and up. At some point you would think they would say we're not going to buy anymore.

You know it's fascinating because a lot of people thought Southwest hedges would fade out. They did make that big bet when prices were in the 30's, but they kept buying and they have continued to buy. They have most of their oil bought for this year at about 57 dollars a barrel. If you don't have hedges, you're right now paying about 120 something dollars a barrel. And they've bought fuel all the way out to 2012 as of today.


Congressman, welcome. Thank you so much for talking to us.

Thank you so much.

So the State Department put out a joint statement last night. It said in part that - I'm quoting here - "Mexico will take unprecedented steps to increase enforcement to curb irregular migration" - end quote. And those steps include deploying its National Guard to Mexico's southern border. So what other actions does the U. S.  expect Mexico to take?

Well, let's keep in mind that Mexico right now is stopping about 250,000 people a year on the southern border. That is, they hold them, and they deport them back on the southern border. So that's a quarter of a million people that would be coming to the United States.

You know, I assume they're going to hopefully stop some of those buses where they have people coming in from the southern border, and they get quickly to the United States, or if it's a caravan walking that they will start dispersing those caravans. And I've heard that in the last couple of days, that is what they're doing. They're holding people more in the southern border. And I think that's one way they're going to be helping the U. S.


These were all - the Hobbits. They were all living, you know, 50,000 years ago, all of these quite diverged groups of humans were living on Earth, and we're now quite lonely. We're the only group on Earth right now.

So something happened to them that didn't happen to us, that we survived?

That's right.

And the fact that - did they - do you think they knew of one another?


Oh, no. I love grapefruit.

(Laughter).

It's one of the best things in the world.

Seriously?


Because there's going to be this glass chamber, people can follow along.

Right. It looks absolutely beautiful.

Oh, it does?

Yeah, it looks absolutely beautiful.


Yeah. Millions of dollars. And they actually - the Coogan Law at this moment though actually only protects about 15 percent of a child's earning. And so there's a whole 85 percent that goes somewhere else. And the parents can use it for various things. And the child can use it but, you know, when you're a child you're not going to make most sound financial decisions.

And you end up seeing a lot of child stars actually growing up and getting emancipated from their parents because they don't like the way that their parents have handled their money. And there are other loopholes around it too, like they can appear - they have to appear in front of a court to say that they can do this. But the ones who don't appear in front of a court, they don't have to necessarily pay attention to those rules. And there are a lot of loopholes and sadly there are lot of parents using their kids to make money.

Well, Mara Wilson, thank you very much for your time today. We appreciate your insight. I love the picture of Alfred Hitchcock, who you say once described actors as cattle. And your line, please?

That would make child actors veal.


OK.

We're in a tent at the Smithsonian Folklife Festival. So if you hear some extraneous sounds that you wouldn't normally hear in Studio 3A, please forgive us. But it gives us the opportunity to do some things that we wouldn't ordinarily do. We want to hear from comedians today. How do you translate your material, which comes from a certain time and place, to a wider or different cultural or even ethnic group?Give us a call: 800-989-8255. Email us: talk@npr. org.

And Trevor Noah, what did you find translated well?Is there a material that you did in Cape Town that you can do in Los Angeles, or Baltimore for that matter?

Not really, no. Because the points of view changes, you know?I think the one - well, I could talk about Oprah. Oprah is worldwide. Yes.

Oprah is worldwide.


From what I can tell, as an observer of the trial, it has. You have to bear in mind what the juror's going to be focused on are the documents. In a white-collar criminal case, it's hard to ignore what the documents say. You've got tax returns that they're putting in. You've got mortgage applications that they've entered into evidence. You've got emails. The witnesses are putting those emails - those other communications - in the context. But to a large degree, the record is all written.

And just in the 25 seconds we have left, any idea what direction the defense is going to take?

It's hard to say. The defense can put witnesses on, or the defense can choose not to. The defense can put the defendant on or can choose not to. I think that's probably unlikely in this case. I don't think Paul Manafort will end up taking the witness stand. But I think, at the end of the day, they're going to end up pointing their finger at Gates as a dishonest business associate who really is the one responsible for these crimes.

Tim Belevetz, former federal prosecutor, now in private practice. Thanks so much for being with us.


What did it mean to many Italian Americans to have Columbus Day established as a federal holiday back in the 1930s?

One has to remember that when Italians arrive here in the late 1880s in mass - we're talking about 4 1/2 millions who come - Italian immigrants who come between 1880s and 1924 - they encounter America that is xenophobic, that is engaging in acts of violence against immigrants. One has to remember the lynching in New Orleans of 11 Italian Americans in 1891 so that Columbus becomes this figure that Italians latch on to as a way to get a foothold in this incredibly hostile environment that they find themselves in.

So what has the reaction been among many Italian American groups and Italian American families to the emphasis in recent years on seeing the racism and brutality and violence in Columbus' personal history?

There's an emotional bond to Columbus. I've read poetry which has - says, you know, when I look at the figure of Columbus on a statue, I don't see Columbus. I see my grandfather. I see the sort of worker's hands in his hands. I see the visage, his visage. And I see that of my grandfather. So there's a really emotional bond there.


The new head of the EPA, Lisa Jackson, says that she'll look at this, and quickly. How confident are you now that this is going to happen, and how soon?

Well, she's definitely going to look at it right away, because the president announced that he was asking her to do so. She also committed to us that she would. And I'm very confident, because if science is to prevail, we're going to get the waiver. The scientists at EPA said that EPA had no leg to stand on in terms of turning down a waiver so that we could have cleaner cars and lessen global warming in our state. Our state is really vulnerable to global warming, with our old forests and our coastlines and all the problems that we have so many people, so many cars. So we're ready to go. And the whole notion is that the federal government shouldn't stand in the way of progress here.

Senator Boxer, is it your intention that stricter standards adopted in California eventually become the standard for the rest of the country?

Well, actually 19 states have already embraced it, so we know that half of the country is already going to embrace it. As far as the other states, I don't know. But clearly, when half of the country has embraced our standards, we're going to see technology step up to the plate because they have this big market.

Auto makers, as you know, argue that the new standards would burden an already badly crippled industry. Legitimate or not legitimate?


You could say the Republicans are ending 2013 on their highest note of the year.

That's the best thing that has happened to them. Well, 2014 looms. How are they shaping up for the midterms?

The midterms look good for Republicans. They will almost certainly hold control of the House. The Democrats would need nearly 20 seats in that takeaway. That's a big order and particularly because the president's party, in this case the Democrats, tends to lose seats in the midterms, not gain. On the Senate side, the Republicans are on the march. They need six seats to take back the majority in the Senate.

They may or may not get there, but the seats are out there to win. There are a lot of red states electing senators, some with incumbents like Louisiana and Arkansas, North Carolina where the Democrats got a struggle, others where there's a vacancy, say, in a Montana or a South Dakota.


Thanks to everyone who wrote in.

And best of luck to all of you out there who, like us, are trying to reinvent yourselves.

And thanks to our senior producer, Steve Proffitt. Steve, thank you. I don't know; what shall call you now from now on, if you're going to reinvent yourself?

How about Steve?


Well, I think a lot of people think after such a long stretch of economic growth, we're due for a recession. It's often said by economists that expansions don't die of old age. They have to be murdered, usually by the Fed or financial crisis.

(Laughter).

So that might happen. There are some warning signs out there. We had a bad job market report. We'll get more - another glimpse of the job market report at the end of this week. Manufacturing is soft. But one thing that's interesting is some people worry that long periods of steady growth, low rates and rising stock prices breed complacency, and that could end badly.

OK, David. Thanks so much. That's David Wessel.


Yes. Everywhere we looked, we found these networks using very, very similar tactics. And often, not - they're different from what I think we have seen in the U. S.  elections where Russian operatives set up groups for a very long time. And also, like, in European countries, we saw those groups operating for years, sometimes starting as a lifestyle page or a movie page, and then slowly, but surely, shifting to becoming a far-right page. That is a clear, deceptive tactic to pull in more and more people into their stories.

And this disinformation that you were finding - it tended to skew to the far-right, or were people on the far-left - were there other groups skewing it in different directions?

Yes. So we started looking at what actual disinformation is spreading and looked who's spreading is. And time and again, we went down a rabbit hole to the far-right. But in Italy, for example, we also found a lot of populist, but they're not far-right parties. So it was not only far-right, but mainly far-right - what we found in our research.

And you said you went down the rabbit hole of who was creating this. Just speak a little bit more about that. Was this official groups, random individuals - or can you even tell?


They won't be in the wild, as I understand. It's still under human care but in different circumstances?

Yeah, they'll be in a setting that is, as closely as possible, approximates the natural conditions where dolphins typically live, i. e. , natural seawater, in the ocean, in a setting that has vegetated shorelines and natural bottoms and organisms, you know, plants and animals that would otherwise be found there. But they will be under human care for most likely their entire lives, yes.

Do you anticipate adjustment problems?The aquarium, I guess, is the only home they've ever really known.

They have all known - either all or very - the lion's share of their lives in this kind of setting. And it will be a completely new experience for them. So they need to go through a lot of acclamation, both behaviorally and physiologically, in order to make this transition successfully.


We are. . .

We are - yeah.

There's something - does that bother you or that we're experimenting on ourselves?

Oh, a little bit, I guess, you know?


He says it's incumbent on the press and on the media not to make it easy for celebrities to have these terribly serious transgressions alleged and be able to skate by on their charm, on their fame, on their accomplishments outside the arena of these allegations. He said, you know, it is precisely the inconvenient moment where you have all these stars - and Woody Allen is in South of France because of the debut of his new film.

And you have stars like Blake Lively, Jesse Eisenberg and others who are there, Steve Carell. And he says we should be hearing them asked what it's like to work with an alleged child molester - and by the way, those are his words, not mine - rather than asked, you know, what costumes were you wearing?How did you like your outfits?What was it like to work with this great director?

That's his argument. He says it's uncomfortable but these questions need to be asked, otherwise powerful people can get away with terrible things.

How do you feel about that?


Hopelessness and uncertainty.

Are people trying to leave, and is that something you've considered?

Many people have no choice. And they think - the only thing - I can leave the country. But how can they do that with the huge amount of limitations on Iranians' travelings (ph) and economical limits?They cannot do that. It is very, very difficult for them. And now we see a lot of Iranians who are abroad the country who are evacuating. They cannot do it anymore because of the higher dollar prices. They have to return to the country. It is very difficult situation for them.

Well, thank you so much for speaking with us and sharing your story.


No.

So give an ABC, a little ABCs of how, let's say, Plan B works.

Yeah, so it depends on when you take it. You have to be aware when the fertile window is. So it's five days before ovulation and then about maximum one day after ovulation. And if you take it before the LH surge has started, then it works by either blocking follicular development and ovulation or by postponing it.

But if LH has started to rise, then it's too late, and it has no effect, and ovulation will occur. And it has no effect after ovulation, no effect on the fallopian tube or on the endometrium, that is the uterine lining. And actually if a woman has miscalculated, so she's already pregnant, it has no negative effect on the pregnancy, on the fetus or on the newborn baby. And it can't interrupt a pregnancy, but it has absolutely no effect.


Yes.

. . . Following the election in 2000, when - and I'm sure the news industry was part of it.

(Laughter).

A lot of people said, how can the greatest country in the - you know, you can go to an ATM and get $200. Why can't we have a sleek, electronic voting system in this country?


Honestly, I think in most of these things, I think it's very hard to negotiate with Mr.  Trump because he doesn't stick to his word. And I think that my experience of negotiating over the last three or four decades is if there's someone like that, then you really just say, this is what I want. I'm not budging. I'm not talking. Give me a call when you're ready to deal.

Well, but does that just mean that nothing gets done for the DREAMers?

I don't think so. If you're the minority in the House and the minority in the Senate, and you don't control the White House, then you're going to - you have to ask yourself where are the points where we have a point of pressure?And then you have to decide what it is that you want to fight for. You have to say that clearly - not bluff at all - and we're not budging. And that's what you've got to do because the fact of the matter is every time that you negotiate you're going to come out with something that isn't great.

You note your business career. As you see it, Mr.  Steyer, has President Trump made the whole prospect of successful business figures in public office more or less enticing?


Yeah. A lot of people get into it for different reasons. First of all, I mean, if anyone says they didn't get into law enforcement to drive a police car fast with the lights and siren that comes screeching into a parking lot sideways and jump out and tackle a guy, they're lying to you. I mean, there's other greater, noble reasons, but come on, man, really?That's why we do it. It's fun.

Derek Pacifico, retired sergeant of the San Bernardino County Sheriff's Department in California. He now runs Crime Writers Consultations and trains novelists and screenwriters on how to write valid, good, honest crime stories. Sergeant, thanks so much.

Thanks for having me. It was a pleasure.

You have the right to remain silent while listening to WEEKEND EDITION from NPR News.


Yeah. Did Joan love Ray, really?

You know, it's easy to think that perhaps she married him because of his money. But it's been hard to sort of root out exactly what she felt. What she said in interviews a number of times was very circumspect - what is love?But I do know that people who knew them both say that it was a long passion - that it wasn't just as simple as a beautiful, young woman running off with a rich man. Certainly, you know, the facts bear that out. It took them so long to get together, and there was a huge price to be paid with both their families.

She really made a difference in the way we think of and treat addiction, didn't she?

Oh, she did, and in such an interesting time. In the '70s, even before Betty Ford had famously stepped forward and talked about her struggles, Joan was convening people who were early thinkers in how to treat people differently. You know, AA had been around, of course, for decades. But there was a movement in the '70s to get people to look at the whole person with alcoholism. And Joan was really passionate about getting the word out.


Indeed, in fact, even over the last few hours. What we're hearing - and this really is hot off the presses, I haven't even been able to confirm it - is that the opposition, Morgan Tsvangirai's Movement for Democratic Change, is calling for a strike next week. I'm told that leaflets are being handed around town saying that there should be a strike next week, and this is clearly in protest of the delay in the release of the presidential elections.

The high court, by the way, the judge who is hearing the opposition's petition to have these results released urgently, is meant to be ruling on Monday.

Do you know why we hadn't gotten the results before now?

Ha!Tony, if I knew that, I would be a very wealthy woman. You know, it depends who you talk to. On the government's side, they're saying there has to meticulous, and this is a word we keep hearing, meticulous verification of the results. The government party, President Mugabe's ZANU-PF, has also alleged irregularities and misconduct in how the vote was carried out. And in fact, some election officials have even been arrested apparently for undercounting up to 5,000 votes in Mugabe's favor.


We should explain that money is not an issue. More than 80,000 people have donated to a fundraising campaign to support the Gard family. Why do you feel this case has drawn such, at this point, international attention?

I think it has sparked outrage because it gets down to the point of whose child is Charlie?Does Charlie belong to the state, or does Charlie belong to his parents?And if he belongs to his parents, then they should be given the right - and not the government, not the hospital, not the courts - to decide Charlie's fate because the moment they turn off the ventilator, he's going to die.

Would a life spent on a ventilator be worth living?

From the Christian perspective, yes because every single human life is valuable. His life has meaning. And if his parents want to increase and prolong and give him the best chance possible, the hospital has no right to step in the role of the parents to try to give their son the best chance possible.


Absolutely. And again, with this fresh production, I think - it's like that Emily Dickinson quote: Tell the truth, but tell it slant. "I think that is originally what Tennessee Williams was getting at with the idea of plastic theater; that it does not have to be a literal expression of the truth. You can come at it from an angle. And what's beautiful here is that John Tiffany, I think, takes that literally and created this abstract set with Bob Crowley. And what's also interesting to me, Scott, is that John is English, and Bob Crowley, the set designer, is Irish. And John said to me, you know, doing Tennessee Williams in America is like an American stage director doing Shakespeare in the UK. And this season there we have Pinter, we have Beckett, there are revivals of Shakespeare - but Tennessee Williams is the only American playwright being revived on Broadway in the fall.

With all due regard to Beckett and Shakespeare and the other fine playwrights you mentioned, I'd put Tennessee Williams up against all seven or eight of them.

I would too. I would too.

Barbara Chai of the Wall Street Journal. Thanks so much for being with us.


(Laughter) Well, listen. This was an amazing victory for Alabama. It was a victory, I think, for decency - common decency. And it shows that Alabama was willing to put principle over party. I was very excited that my district overperformed. And I was particularly excited about the African-American turnout. You know, I think that people understood that the stakes were high. This administration has had a negative effect on our community. It's reversing a lot of the Obama-era progress that we've made. And I'm just very pleased that people showed up and showed out.

Was the role of women especially important?

Absolutely. You know, it was shown that Doug received 57 percent of all female votes. And that included 98 percent of the African-American women vote. The issues that matter most to my district affect the family and affect our children. And so I think that you really saw a major outpouring of women, especially African-American women, in this election.

On the other hand, as there always is with those journalists, Roy Moore was an especially polarizing figure, even among Republicans. Do you draw any significance from what you were able to accomplish in this election with what you think Democrats ought to be doing for 2018?


There's been a lot of death on this mountain over the past couple of years. 2012, six climbers died one day on the summit. In 2013, there was that brawl between some Sherpas and some European climbers. Sixteen people died last year on Everest, and there was the April earthquake. Why would someone want to climb Everest now?

You know, it baffles me, but, you know, this mountain has an inescapable pull for a lot of people. It's been more than four years now since there's been, you know, what would pass for a quiet season on Mount Everest. And each year that I thought that there might be a normal season, it got unimaginably worse, which is just difficult to fathom.

You know, I think that some teams are thinking about going to the North side. Some people are actually, you know, canceling their trips, and people are thinking about other mountains. But for a lot of people, you know, Everest is - it's a mythical kind of place. And for a lot of people, I think it's a lifelong dream that nothing is going to stand between them and the summit.

Grayson Schaffer, Outside Magazine senior editor, speaking with us from Santa Fe. Thanks so much for being with us.