It goes into the ecosystem, and it will be assimilated most likely based on past history. What is actually overflows is more dilute than what it would have been without the rain. And then with everything else that's coming down the river, it will get assimilated into the ecosystem one way or another. In a case like this where there's the major flooding, most of the nutrients are going to get carried on out into the ocean.

Why in this day and age are there still hog lagoons and we haven't come up with a better way?

There are better ways. It's just that they're expensive ways. And from a farming standpoint, the margins are typically slim. And so it's just - there's - lagoons are still an effective method for waste treatment and fairly resilient. You know, some of the new systems that have been evaluated were highly mechanical systems, high energy requirements. And so, you know, during a storm event or where there's electricity is off for several days, those systems aren't going to work at all. And so you're still going to have a potential for release of wastewater.

Yeah. Mr.  Rice, I found myself very affected this week to read that amidst all the devastation and suffering of many people through Hurricane Florence, according to reports, about 5,500 pigs died during the storm.


So when we think of plays like "Romeo And Juliet," quite often they mention - well, in particular "Romeo And Juliet" - it mentions nightingales and particularly larks. And indeed would make the sound of a lark. So found - in any other context you could just say, oh, it's a (unintelligible). But found in this context, there's a possibility that it was used, as you say, as a special effect during performance.

Oh, my word. What else have you found that'd we'd enjoy hearing about?

We're just starting to find things that may have been used by actors or the audience - things like clay pipes or hair combs and the old coin.

What will become of the Curtain when you're done?


Hi.

What did the administration do first?

Right. OK. So it started last week. The Trump administration added Huawei to a short list that American companies cannot buy from or sell to. The ban affects very big players and also some pretty small ones. Take small mobile carriers - OK?- not your Verizons and T-Mobiles but, say, your rural carrier. They buy Huawei equipment because it's cheap. Now they'll have to change suppliers.

On the big end, let's take Google. Google and Huawei have licensing agreements. That's to put apps like Gmail, Maps and YouTube on Huawei phones. So now with the new ban, for any future phones, new licensing agreements are not allowed. The Google apps can't be included. So that'll curtail Google's presence in Europe, where Huawei phones are sold.


You edited "Confessions of a Video Vixen" by Karrine Steffans. We've had her on show. And it's a memoir about her life as a video dancer for artists like JZ, R.  Kelly, LL Cool J. It talks about hip hop, sex, sexuality, family. Tell me about the process of getting her story to press.

Well it's interesting. I'd heard quite a lot about Corrine via reading a magazine article about her and then hearing about her repeatedly on radio. And so when I reached out to her, I didn't really have a lot of expectations other than this might be interesting. And so I had a very long conversation with her and you know, upon talking to her I was very impressed with her being very - her candor was amazing first of all and then secondly the fact that she was unapologetic about her life. She wasn't proud of it necessarily but she wasn't apologetic either.

And so one of the things that we did, our editorial director, who is amazing, went out to LA and said, I just want to experience this woman for myself and so she spent an evening with her in a popular Hollywood watering hole. And she knew after that evening that Corrine was who she said she was, just based on how people, particularly men, responded to her just from her walking into the room.

Well that's one way of looking at things. But the publisher obviously went a lot further to turn…


They came out weekly. So a reader really would get their news day to day in the mainstream paper or on the radio. But this aspect of racial pride and presenting stories of achievement and success and issues was so important for readers of the time because this is the only place you would see lengthy stories of interest to blacks.

Nancy, we don't have very much time, so very briefly, tell us how she actually was tracked by the government. I mean, comic strips were considered political at this point, and she was investigated by the Justice Department. Just tell us very briefly.

Yes, well, I knew she must have had some kind of surveillance, because her topics were so political. She took on the arms race, the Cold War, freedom of speech. She even named President Truman and talked about the Korean War. So, you know, I made a request at the Justice Department, and I did get her file.

But what was interesting is they did not mention her cartoons. They were interested in her friends and associations and investigated her because of those. And she was with intellectuals and artists and others who - yes, I'm sure some were communists, but many were anti-communists, and she certainly was not a communist. But they followed her, and they had informants watching out for her for about 10 years.


But I think that the common thread in a lot of these cities is just that these systems are old. The systems are old and maintenance has been deferred on them. And, you know, in different ways and at different times, that's starting to catch up.

So it's part of the crumbling infrastructure problem in America?

(Laughter) Yeah, you could say that. I mean, I think that, you know - and certainly, when you think about it, these are some of the oldest pieces of infrastructure we have. Often when we talk about the crumbling infrastructure, folks are worried about our highway system or our bridges and so forth. But as you said, New York subway system is 112 years old. Boston's is even older. The rail system in San Francisco is also quite old. So this is some of the oldest infrastructure we have. And so it's not that surprising that it's starting to give out.

It's a special kind of horror to be delayed for, let's say, even half an hour or even five minutes, for that matter, in a subway car that's stalled that has no electricity that's well underneath the ground and the air is stifling. And that - just the fear of that happening is enough to drive people away, isn't it?


What did you really face when it came to dealing with your colleagues?

The majority of the Secret Service agents were very acceptable of me coming in to the White House detail. There were only a few who were dead-set against any integration policies or equal-opportunity policies that were being enforced by President Kennedy, giving equal opportunity to all people, regardless of race, religion, color or ethnic background.

And I think that President Kennedy was serious, and he was doing these things not for a political purpose, but because he felt it in his heart that America could be a much better place if we didn't have all of these divisions and restrictions on people of ethnic backgrounds and minorities.

So now I foresaw that the weaknesses in the protection on President Kennedy would allow his assassination if any serious attempt would be made against his life, and I did everything in my power to stem that threat against our young president.

What threats did you hear against the president's life and when?

We had many threats. It was just like a thunderstorm of threats during the early part of 1963, going in to November. As a matter of fact, in Miami, Florida, we were told at a record meeting here in Chicago that a tape-recording had been made of some Cubans who were discussing how they were going to assassinate the president.


It works in both ways. I mean, obviously they're all designed to change and evolve in the ecosystem where they're placed. And sometimes that provides spectacular results. You know, we get sort of pink and purple corals and sponges and all these amazing things growing on them and morphing them. And that only adds to them. They really sort of then become alive. But also you're in this really kind of difficult environment. You're in the sea. So in tropical areas, you get big hurricanes, you get the surges of waves. And so with that in mind, you know, I really have to sort of program them then so they're fixed. And that can be a challenge.

I wonder, is part of the appeal you want to make to people with these installations, you have to work a little to see them?

Yes, I think so. I think you have to make a conscious effort, obviously, to go there. And to most people, the sea is this sort of hidden, concealed world that, you know, when they look at, they just see a blue horizon. Whereas, you know, it's actually a spectacular place underwater. It's this marvelous world that we have on our doorsteps. And I kind of want that - my work to be a kind of portal or an entrance for people to get to know more about the sea. And obviously it's in peril from many different threats at the moment, and I really want to draw attention to that.

Ever run into a giant tuna at the market who says, I like your work?


In the courtroom, a lot of people cheered. And in lots of the capital, we were in coffee shops where people also cheered saying, you know, it's time for stability. But then there were others whose hearts were broken; many who protested in 2011 for freedom from a police state who are saying that they are watching the symbols of that repression now be pronounced innocent.

And what's the environment in Egypt right now that surrounds this decision?

Really, right now, you have an environment of repression. You have three Al Jazeera English journalists in jail accused of being terrorists on little to no evidence. You've had mass trials of people getting death sentences with no due process. The first freely elected president, Islamist president Mohamed Morsi, was ousted from power and put in jail. Many people point to that as a sign that there really isn't democracy.

But after the decision, there were many people who were visibly happy?


Yeah, so when Zazi got picked up in the fall of 2009, he immediately started cooperating. And from then on, for the last 10 years or so, he's cooperated against a number of high-profile trials in the U. S.  - the third in command in al-Qaida, another American and a British operative. He cooperated with law enforcement over 100 times, did interviews there. They described his cooperation as extraordinary, some of the best they've seen in terrorism trials.

Do we know why?

You know, sometimes when these things happen - and I've interviewed a few individuals who've joined al-Qaida and other groups like this - they have an awakening moment when they're looking, sitting across the table from an FBI agent. It becomes very real to them in a way they hadn't seen before. For Zazi's case, he decided that he made a mistake, and he wanted to rectify that.

There are three men who were involved in this plot. Two of them cooperated with the government. But the third guy decided to go to trial rather than plead guilty. He's in prison for life now. I don't want to sound cynical, but it does seem like a change of heart is a good legal strategy.


You're welcome. What a pleasure.

What are the factors you had to take into consideration to do things like help create flags and currency for South Sudan?

What I learned was these state symbols are really marks of consensus. They're about design, but they're really about agreement. So South Sudan is comprised of 60 ethnic tribes, and for the one symbol that they were able to produce during the time of the referendum to the time of their independence, they produced a national seal. And they had to get the agreement of 28 cabinet ministers representing these tribes.

And what's the seal look like?How would you describe it?


Now, in New York state alone, that's 98 delegates at stake tomorrow for whoever wins by just one vote. That's a big pass to the delegates to get all in one place. And in some other states, if you win in every congressional district, you can take home the lion's share of the delegates from that state.

So, because the Republican rules do wait the winner more heavily and give extra bonus delegates for just winning, whether you win by one vote or whether you win over 50 percent in some cases, that's a big opportunity for John McCain as the national frontrunner to run up a big delegate total tomorrow and really put this out of reach.

All right. Finally, Mike Huckabee. He has a strong following among social conservatives at this point. He's kind of considered and also ran. Is that really accurate?What influence does he have in the race either, you know, in terms of winning or in terms of endorsing?

Well, first, his dream, of course tomorrow, would be to win big in several states in the south, maybe break through in Georgia, Alabama, his own state of Arkansas, Oklahoma possibly. He's competitive in West Virginia, where having conventions, maybe even Tennessee. If he could do that, he could stay in the race as a kind of regional candidate and power broker. Otherwise, the main thing he's doing is he's probably taking votes away from Mitt Romney, which is why Mitt Romney keeps trying to say, shoo, to Mike Huckabee in the game, out of the race if he possibly can.


There are a lot of different stories in your first issue about reducing recidivism, performing Shakespeare in prison, getting a Ph. D.  on the inside. Was there one story in particular that you were really happy inmates would be able to read?

One that comes to mind that I like is about virtual reality. There's juveniles that were sentenced to life without parole previously, but the Supreme Court changed all that. And one facility thought, now they are going to society; what we going to do with them?How we going to prepare them?So they came up with the idea of virtual reality goggles so they can see images of what it looks like to be on the outside. And it was - one gentleman who did the grocery store virtual reality video - when he took the headset off, he had tears streaming down his face. And the first thing out his mouth was, what else in the world has changed?

Wow.

Many men on the inside just wish they can just have a glimpse of what the outside is.


After they rejected President Obama's opening offer, Republicans issued a proposal of their own yesterday, which was promptly dismissed by the White House. One group that's already worked out a series of compromises to come up with a comprehensive proposal is a nonpartisan group called Fix the Debt. It emerged from the Simpson-Bowles Commission. Its ideas include higher taxes on the wealthy and tax reform, plus changes to Social Security and Medicare.

Former Republican Senator Pete Domenici serves on the steering committee of Fix the Debt, co-chairs the Debt Reduction Task Force at the Bipartisan Policy Center, and he joins us now by phone from his office in Washington, D. C. , and it's good of you to be with us today.

Thank you very much, Neal. I do want to clarify now, I'm not - I'm associated with the Bipartisan Policy Center. We put out our budget for use by the team working for the White House and the Republicans. It's not the same as the one you just announced.

All right.


But you do know that this is public information.

Yes. But we are not contributing to fuel any hate. We are contributing because we want President Trump to be reelected. I like the job he's doing as president. I love the way he loves America, the same way that I love America. I named my company Great America Companies in 1972 when I first immigrated to America because I felt this was a great place.

President Trump has used the words invasion and killer, according to new statistics, over 500 times when speaking about immigration and immigrants since 2017. That is as president. People see his rhetoric as divisive and specifically when speaking about Latino immigrants. Does that not concern you?

Not at all because he's not being taken in the full context of these expressions. What he wants is legal immigration. He's not objecting to immigration of Latinos or Hispanics. He only objects to illegal immigration.


Yeah, well, this is an excellent question. First of all, the thing that they looked back to if they wanted to think back to a time of real hardship, it would have been the depression of the early 1890s, which was about as close to them as the depression is to us, but closer actually. So, in the 1890s, you had upwards of 20 percent unemployment.

This was caused by some crisis to do with a run on the U. S.  dollar, and gold flowing out of the United States Treasury and so forth, and so on. And you had really large numbers of the unemployed straggling along American roads looking for work. This is in an age of a lot of anxiety about hobos, and tramps, and the threat to public order that they might have represented.

And I think if we had had motion pictures from the 1890s, we would probably regard that as a great depression. But the key thing maybe to think about there is, it wasn't obviously going to be the great depression by Christmas 1929. And maybe, even it wasn't obviously going to be the great depression by Christmas 1930. It was something that kind of crept slowly and sickeningly upon people.

And this thesis that really it's the information revolution, it's the online world in exchange of all that we know, this thesis probably is not such a big factor, you think, in what's going on.


Sure.

. . . Had Don Blankenship prevailed.

Well, they're all tough. I say you run scared or unopposed. They're all tough. But you're right. This will be a tough race.

Yeah. Have your calculations about how to run the race changed?


Committee will come to order.

Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff was the one swinging that gavel and overseeing the hearing with Acting Director of National Intelligence Joseph Maguire. Chairman Schiff, welcome back to the program.

Thank you. Great to be with you.

Let me first ask you about one big revelation in the whistleblower complaint, which is that after President Trump asked Ukraine's president to look into the Biden family, the White House locked down all records of the call, putting them into a separate electronic system to handle especially sensitive classified information. Have you ever heard of a White House doing something like that?


And you do say us. You believe that you've been complicit in some small ways, too.

Of course. I believe that everybody has. I tell a story in the piece about a former colleague of mine who did not harass me but who I saw harass other people. And at a later job, that colleague, I was told, was going to be brought on. And I made this stand. No, I will not work with him. But I was on a leave at the time. And I was told - OK, it'll just be temporary. By the time you get back from your leave, he'll be gone. And he was.

However, when I got back from that leave, there were younger employees who came to me afterwards and told me that he had messaged them inappropriately. So you know, here I was thinking, actually, that I was, you know, doing the right thing by raising my voice in concern. But in fact, in doing it only, in some ways, on my own behalf, I failed to protect the others - younger women - from that kind of behavior.

Some of the allegations against prominent men - and be they Harvey Weinstein or Roy Moore or James Toback or President Trump or Al Franken - are 10, 20, even 30 years old. Should some of the women who defended President Bill Clinton from allegations of sexual misconduct in the '80s and '90s reassess the support they gave him now?


Yeah.

. . . Calmer feeling inside your kitchens. Why?

Right. That's part of what I learned not to do from Todd is to scream and to not pay them. And a lot of that was what I had to go through. I had to beg for my paycheck, or - I think I was making $6 an hour from him. So I felt I would succeed if I treat people with dignity and teach them the tools to succeed - not that I really knew right away when I had only one restaurant - but to be part of a team instead of a head chef and a screamer. I wanted it to feel like we're all in this together - from the reservationist, to the dishwasher, to the line cooks, to myself - that we are one chef, and we - I need them to succeed. So that's how I worked in my kitchens.

Why do you think it's still so hard for women to break into this business?

It isn't hard to break into it. It's up to women to want to do it. I think a lot of women look at the hours and the lifestyle, and then they think family or children. But I think it's fabulous to have your children involved in the restaurant industry. I mean, it's changed a lot. And - I mean, it's not - it's about what women want to do, and don't give up. I think that's really - I just put my head down, and I knew what I wanted, and I went for it. And yeah, there's struggle, but there's struggles in every job.


Yeah.

. . . Jupiter. But there's no debris right now. It looks like whatever hit Jupiter, Jupiter just kind of swallowed it whole.

Yeah. You know, I'm reminded - when you say debris, I'm reminded of that famous Shoemaker-Levy 9 comet that broke up and smashed into the planet in 1994.

Well, you're right. And, you know, I said 10 or 20 years ago, people might have said that Dan Peterson, who saw the impact, was just, you know, seeing things. But back before comet Shoemaker - excuse me, SL9 hit Jupiter, astronomers were very skeptical that big impacts like that occurred in the modern day solar system. And then we saw that tremendous series of 21 impacts with our own eyes, when Shoemaker 9 hit Jupiter. And, of course, that was a comet.


Oh, my God. I love them.

You love them.

I can eat one everyday. You hate them. I'm so interested.

It's literally, like, on my top three worst foods.


He was.

He wrote many articles in magazines and newspapers, so I guess you could see where he might get carried away a little bit. He was popularizing science to come up with something maybe that was sort of like Einstein said, a little literary license maybe.

Yeah. Einstein regretted having put the term in, but he didn't use those precise words. And this became interesting to me because this is almost Einstein's most quoted phrase. So you know, it was interesting to see has he actually used those words.

Yeah. That is quite interesting. Let's talk about another strange fact that's in your book. You write that Vladimir Nabokov, the author of "Lolita" and "Pale Fire," actually came up with a scientific theory about butterflies at one point.


Mike Dunleavy like, drained, I think, a dozen three-pointers, if I'm not mistaken.

At least, yeah. And the Blazers lost to Houston 121 to 116 in overtime - not to move on to Portland too quickly here. What's going on?Strange and spreading malady in these playoffs, Scott. Road teams are winning at a stunning rate. In the first week of the postseason, road teams won 12 of the 22 games. Now remember, teams are clawing for much of the regular season - clawing to win games in order to give them the home-court advantage in the playoffs.

The psychology of playing in front of your own cheering fans, the comfort and routine of home - it's supposed to make winning in the postseason more likely. So far, not the case.

And why not?


Hi.

So, where were you when the typhoon hit?

I was on the island of Baho, and Baho was affected yesterday about 2 P. M. The problem for Baho is that it had already been basically destroyed, parts of it, by a massive earthquake just three weeks ago. So, there are certain areas of Baho that were particularly vulnerable to the extreme weather that we had yesterday.

I know you're still struggling to assess things but what can you tell us about what conditions look like now?


Every administration has some level of dysfunction. But in a White House that is running somewhat more smoothly than this one, how would this work when it's a well-oiled machine or something close to it?

Well, I was involved in a similar case back in the Clinton presidency when we were examining someone for a high position in national security and seemed like a very fine candidate. But then we began to learn things about his past that were troubling. Red flags started to go up. And we went to the president and said, Mr.  President, there are some real problems here; these are very problematic. And the nominations then just disappeared.

So the public didn't know about it at that point.

The public didn't know and still doesn't know, and I don't think it's fair to the individual. His name was never put into play. I think his privacy should be protected since he wasn't seeking a job; he didn't - wasn't nominated. Here's the thing that also mystifies me because there's so much about this is strange. You would think that candidate himself, knowing how the system works, knowing that there's going to be deep scrutiny - you would think that the potential nominee would go to the chief of staff of the White House and say, we need to talk, and volunteer the information so there can be no misunderstandings along the way instead of having a situation here where people just sat on the information clearly some people knew.


I think it's also worth noting that the money here is astronomically higher than what an insurance commissioner normally raises. It was donated three years in advance to when Causey would have been running for re-election. He hadn't even announced his re-election bid here. And the maximum that donors can give in this state is $5,400 per person.

Any response from Hayes or the other defendants?

I've left Chairman Hayes a voicemail. I have not heard from him. He has not said anything publicly. We have not heard from any of the other ones, any other folks who have been indicted at this time.

And to pull back for a moment, what about the state Republican Party?


I think that's George Bush's fault. Everything else is George Bush's fault. John McCain - look, there are a lot of ways to lose a campaign. And one way to think about it is the way Republicans lost the presidential campaign in 1996, which is that Bob Dole became a much less divisive presence in the last weeks of the campaign. Resources were transferred from the presidential campaign to the House races.

And that year, a year that the Republicans could easily have lost the House, that Republican majority in the House was barely saved. So that's a model for one way to do it. But another thing that can happen is, you can run a campaign - and this is what John McCain is doing - that agitates your base and gets them motivated but also forfeits independents and centrists.

And in your piece, this is a lot of what the Palin factor is. . .

Right.


So, do think we will see these two again?Do you think Lisicki will get another chance?

Well, I think she will. I think she'll have other chances, and it was very, very sweet of Marion Bartoli to say that during the trophy presentation, that she had no doubt that Sabine Lisicki would be back. But once again, the one thing we know about sports is we don't know anything; is that you have no idea who's going to be back, and if you think that next year is your year, you just don't know. And, obviously, with the competition being what it is, let's - you think Serena Williams is sitting at home right now thinking, oh, well, I won't be back. Of course she'll be back. Maria Sharapova will be back. Victoria Azarenka will be back. There are a lot of great young players. Sloan Stephens, the American, will be a huge contender for championships to come.

So, that's the reason why so many professional athletes will tell you, when you're on stage, when it's your moment, you've got to take it because you don't know when that moment's coming again, if it ever does.

Now, the big moment has come for Andy Murray and, of course, the hopes of all Britain are riding on him. He plays Novak Djokovic. What do you think's going to happen?


There were some in the immediate crowd, Scott, who were smiling. But the president chose to make his tour of the damage in a rather affluent area where the damage was not so severe. Elsewhere on the island, these remarks seemed surreal. Plus, there was his rather cavalier comment about Puerto Rico's debt crisis, which is quite severe and which he dismissed and said, well, that's gone. That's gone. That's gone. Well, the next day, the president's budget director had to walk that back and say we shouldn't take that word for word. And all of this gave the impression that the president wasn't taking Puerto Rico as seriously as he did the hurricane disasters in Texas and Florida.

Did he leave a different impression the next day in Las Vegas?

You know, he did, and very much so. Whether it was recompense or whether the Vegas shooting just got to him on another level, one of his most authentic moments, really, of apparent empathy since he took office.

We're getting a tweet from president - from President Trump. Or we're not getting it. But he's tweeted, I called Chuck Schumer yesterday to see if the Dems would do a great health care bill. Obamacare is badly broken, big premiums. Who knows?


Andrew Biewener said this as we were walking through the lab. It's where they first jump kangaroos and. . .

Of course.

Kangaroos on a treadmill.

To figure out how the tendons work. I mean, it really is neat stuff that I don't think – I don't think this - a lab like this exists maybe anywhere else.


Some of them do. But, more than that, what I'm hearing are the amount of people who are so disturbed because everything that Toby says about Rachel is something that they could be accused of. I always think of that, that the - sometimes, my behavior is forgivable in my marriage. And God forbid I should ever get a divorce. But if I did, that very same behavior would be looked at as completely reprehensible. And I think the amount of people who are struggling to find their footing in this new world - where we are supposed to have these equitable marriages and that women are supposed to be as successful as they want to be and that perhaps nobody told the men that we were given permission for that - I think, more and more, you're going to be hearing people who say, oh, my God, the things that Rachel says are things that I've said. It sounds like a miserable book. But I do want to say that. . .

No, it's not.

. . . I think that there is - (laughter). . .

It made me laugh a lot. It bubbles with the insights and funny situations.


Yeah. And you know, it - so what they're studying - so I could gush about the animals for a long time, but there's actual science going on here. And the idea is to understand sort of how muscles work and how our skeletons help us move. And engineers are collaborating with them to make better robots, and they have sort of influence on people looking for treatments for movement disorders in people.

I mean, this is a really basic biology happening here, but you need to have all these kinds of animals to compare how a guinea fowl runs versus how an emu runs or - and so they also have, you know, really cool gadgets. So there's like a huge X-ray machine that takes X-ray video and high-speed cameras everywhere.

And. . .

It's sort of like a visual dream.


Good morning, Scott. You're going to have to work on your inflection if you want a new job.

Uh - (mumbling). Want a new job?Did you hear something. . .

ESPN.

OK.


And the early history of baseball is replete with teams that raided other teams for their catchers.

Oh, and particularly in the 1870s that the best teams were the ones with the best catchers. You really couldn't be successful without one. And Deacon White stood above everybody else to the point where he played on five consecutive championship teams. And he went from team to team and the championship just followed him around wherever he went.

He was quite a good hitter too.

He was a great hitter. He was a way above-average hitter, playing a position where, you know, the defense was so all-encompassing as a skill that you could, you know, you could really just put anybody there if they could field the position and not worry about their bat. But he was a consistent . 300 and above hitter.


OK.  And I understand that you co-authored a paper that looks at all the carbon emissions we're already committed to. Can you explain what all of that includes?

Sure. The idea was pretty simple. It started out as a thought experiment that if we never built another power plant or car or anything that burns a fossil fuel and, instead, we allowed all the ones that are out there in the world to retire according to their normal expected lifetime, how much CO2 would all of those already existing things add to the atmosphere?

And so what we did was set about collecting data on all of those different devices - power plants, cars, factories - and tried to figure out how old they were and how much CO2 they would produce. And when we did all those calculations. . .

Yeah?


Sampson Davis - make that Dr.  Sampson Davis - has a lot of his life tied up in Newark, New Jersey. And Newark and a lot of other inner cities have a lot tied up in him. Dr.  Davis wrote a previous book, "The Pact," about an agreement he made with two high school friends to become doctors. They did. And in a new book, he describes his experience in returning to be an emergency room physician in the Beth Israel Hospital in Newark - in which he was born - in a way that shines light on the particular needs of health care in inner-city America. Sampson Davis' new book is "Living and Dying in Brick City: An E. R. Doctor Returns Home. "Dr.  Sampson Davis joins us from the studios of WBGO in Newark. Thanks so much for being with us.

DR.  SAMPSON DAVIS: Oh, thank you for having me.

You know, a lot of people, with the blessings of their friends and family, would have gotten out of inner-city Newark, gone to medical school and then become a plastic surgeon in Beverly Hills. What made you come back?

You know, for me, my calling was a bit different. It was important for me to come back and to become a beacon of hope, if you will, to show young people especially that education can change a life. And it changed my life and it saved my life in so many ways.


Conveniently because there's an economy to forgery. You only want to give as much as required to persuade somebody that it might be the thing in itself, but never anymore because then you give people rope to hang you with. This is William Henry Ireland - not necessarily the greatest, but certainly one of the most prolific Shakespeare forgers of the late-18th century. He was later found out very quickly and wrote a confession.

Well, while we're standing here, why collect forgeries?Why collect hoaxes?

A lot of art forgery has been scholarly - treated in a scholarly way, but not literature and history in the same way. And actually, I remember talking to my colleagues about this collection and saying, perhaps now, more than ever, we ought to be attending to the subject of authenticity because we've already built another Tower of Babel. And that of course is our Internet, where any kind of discourse - true or false, and all points in between - is fair game.

We can be amused by a lot of this now, but I'm wondering if there are any forgeries here in this collection that had devastating consequences for people who believed in it.


Thank you for having me.

How long have you been throwing the javelin?

I started throwing when I was 13 years old.

When you were 13 years old. . .


The Supreme Court heard arguments this morning on SB 1070, the Arizona immigration law, which passed in 2010. The most controversial part of the legislation requires local law enforcement to check the immigration status of people they suspect of being in the United States illegally. The central question before the justices is the extent of the federal government's authority over immigration law. A decision's expected this summer and, like the decision on the health care law, could play a role in the presidential election.

David Savage, Supreme Court correspondent for The Los Angeles Times and The Chicago Tribune, joins us now by phone from his office here in Washington. David, always nice to have you with us.

Hi, Neal.

And today might - the justices - obviously, this it their last day of arguments this term, not a low-profile case.


Yeah, I was looking for connection - that kind of familial intimacy that I just still didn't have. As a teenager, I went out into the world armed with my guitar and my little songs and my aggressive eye contact. And I was looking to connect with somebody else deeply.

It's so interesting - right?- that you did. You craved it. And as a result, you really looked for people's eyes. You wanted that moment of intimacy. Was it because you felt like you were an outsider in some way?

I was lonely. And yet I realized something - recording the audiobook. . .

Yeah.


That is actually perfect. Holiday's sauce.

As opposed to hollandaise. Right, yeah.

And never regions instead of nether regions.

(Laughter). I don't - I mean, you're the only one who can say nether regions on the air. Mark Memmott, NPR's supervising senior editor for Standards & Practices. You can send him your favorite eggcorns, make up new ones at Word Matters at npr. org. Mark, thanks so much for being with us.


Let's get back to the news organizations who weren't permitted in this briefing. Now, I gather this kind of briefing is called a gaggle. What happened?

That's right.

Were you there?What did you see?

Well, what happened is instead of the daily on-camera briefing, Sean Spicer called a gaggle so he could talk to the pool. That's the small group of reporters that go places where the entire press corps can't fit. And then they share their transcripts and their notes with everyone else in the press corps. The White House said this gaggle would have an extended pool. And turns out they invited some additional organizations, but they pointedly excluded others like CNN, The New York Times, Politico. NPR was not there.


Did you hear anything from President Obama or Speaker Boehner that screams deal to you?

As is true of so much of life, the great philosopher Yogi Berra said it best: It's deja vu all over again. This problem is what caused the debt crisis last year, with the president and his supporters saying you have to increase tax rates on the wealthy and the House Republicans saying you cannot raise tax rates on the wealthy and you have to close loopholes. If they don't figure out a way around this, we are going to have the same kind of nail-biting fight that we had last year, which resulted basically in them kicking the can and creating the fiscal cliff.

Yeah. Well, do you see room for compromise there. I mean, if you were carving the pie?

Well, here is the problem. The professor who spoke to Ari just before said that if you close loopholes on the wealthy you would collect more tax revenue. That is true. But if you're serious about closing the deficit, that is not enough. It just isn't. It doesn't create enough revenue. And that's where the Democrats have fundamentally been saying if you don't raise rates, then everything else is pointless, because it'll all be on the margins. And that's the problem.


He had been released the year before - in June of 1914 - from an institution that was known as the Colored Waifs Home. And this was a reformatory - it was part reformatory, part orphanage. And Armstrong was sent there for at least the second time in early 1913 after he had been arrested for shooting a pistol into the air.

And it was at - while at that reformatory that he began to receive his first formal music instruction. He played in the marching band there. They would parade around the city and play at events on the lake and stuff like that. But when he came out, he was, you know, faced with the challenges of being 13 or 14 years old at the time and needing to provide some income for his family. He grew up in dire poverty, of course.

You take a look at this, like, 8 seconds of film, I guess it is, and maybe it's the power of suggestion, but it certainly looks like Louis Armstrong. And you (laughter) - you really do get a sense, even from this 13-year-old youngster, of just overwhelming charisma.

Yeah, that has been sort of the reaction. The overwhelming reaction to my story is - you know, I fully expected people to try to pick it apart because it's kind of a ridiculous thing to propose. But overwhelmingly, people have said, holy smokes, we think this, you know - it looks like him. He smiles the beautiful Louis Armstrong smile that later became famous. Yeah, it's been fascinating to me.


I think, given what we know about the internal divisions within Iran on some of these issues and the - their negotiating behavior in the past where they've made outrageous public statements and then in negotiations walk right - walked them right back, I wouldn't put too much credence in those statements at this point.

How much confidence do you have that the sanctions and the negotiations are going to be fruitful?

I think that this is going to create the best opportunity we've had in many, many years to test the seriousness of the Iranians and whether they're willing, you know, really, they're - they have a choice between either saving their economy and being part of - a viable part of the region or pursuing a nuclear weapons program that will make them a pariah, even more of a pariah than they are today. That's a pretty fundamental strategic choice. And I think we'll know in the coming weeks and months what choice they make.

Why won't deterrence and containment work with Iran?


So as these bills sort of started to, once again, be introduced in state legislatures this year, the first thing on my agenda was to speak to Janet Porter and basically talk to her about why she felt this bill was important and why she was advocating for it.

And what did she say?

She said that she felt the bill was important because, as its intended effect, it would outlaw the vast majority of abortions. And more importantly, it would give the U. S.  Supreme Court an opportunity to reinterpret Roe v.  Wade.

I think many people are familiar with Roe v.  Wade, but just in the event that they are not, Roe v.  Wade provides women with the constitutional right to an abortion up to the point of what's called viability. And that's when a fetus can survive outside the womb. It's generally understood to be about 24 weeks. A full-term pregnancy is 40 weeks.

So these bills and the ability to get an abortion at about six weeks. That's before most women know they're pregnant. And the strategy from Porter is to get it before the Supreme Court, and give the Supreme Court an opportunity to reinterpret the standard by which Roe v.  Wade was decided.

So can you just tell me a little bit more about her?Like, what motivates her?Where do her ideas come from?


Yeah. Yeah, you know, and even more specifically, a black man because we really get a bad rap in mainstream media, particularly black fathers, you know. There's always the stereotype that, you know, we're not present or deadbeats, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And while obviously those situations do exist, it feels very much so that it's just like disproportionately represented in that way.

And, you know, I have a lot of friends that are young fathers, and they're all willing to do whatever it takes for their young girls. And, you know, this was just kind of me put myself in their shoes and kind of representing and also really being inspired by all these viral videos of dads doing their daughter's hair and people just really being fascinated by that.

I want to mention that before the film and the book, you were executive producer on "BlacKkKlansman. "You've done commercials. You've done music videos. Before that, you played in the NFL.

(Laughter) Yeah.


Yeah, of course. What really sealed the deal for me was when I had to pay $11. 25 to report each individual score to colleges on my list. And, of course, I believe, you know, there has to be a lot of money that goes into proctors, the readers for the essays, all that stuff. To just send scores?It doesn't cost $11 per score.

Of course, the College Board's a not-for-profit corporation.

Yeah. I mean, they pull in about $750 million-plus a year. In the last three years, there's been about a $60 million profit on average, and that's just insane.

Well, let me follow up on another part of your argument, Mr.  Tonelli. Do you think the costs of the tests deter students from applying to more than one college?And does it perhaps discourage poorer families?


So they're very competent, very professional and, quite frankly, surprisingly good. You know, we've had a tendency in this country to sort of dismiss North Korea as a backward country. But it's not. In the nuclear arena, there are two paths to the bomb. One is the plutonium path. They showed me all of that in 2004 - not very fancy but good enough. And then in 2010, they actually showed me centrifuge facility. That was simply astounding. It was a modern facility, and it was remarkable for them to have that.

One of the goals of these potential talks is the denuclearization of North Korea. Given they've got such capabilities, how likely is it to happen?

Well, first of all, I think it's not very likely to happen. What's significant in the current situation is they've actually said that they would be willing to give up nuclear weapons, you know, if their security is assured, and they're not threatened. However, to think that's going to happen in the short term is just not realistic because to build a nuclear weapons program, it's an enormous number of facilities. It's a large number of people. It took, well, more or less 50 years but particularly the last 25 years to get to where they are today. They're not going to turn that over overnight.

Well, short of full denuclearization, what other steps could North Korea take to prove, you know, its sincerity in this?


Well, I think the water infrastructure we have in this country is seriously neglected. I mean, all infrastructure acts as a foundation for economic prosperity, but water is especially important. It does live in this different world where it's so intrinsic and folks expect that we're going to have clean, fresh water any time you turn on the tap. But given the fact that it's buried, it's literally underground, it's easy to ignore. And while we have large infrastructure problems in this country, the water infrastructure problems loom particularly large.

So we don't see them, perhaps even can't taste them. It's not until they - well, that just makes it easier for problems to hide in a sense.

Exactly. And some of these systems are, you know, were built 100 years ago. Some of the pipes are made out of wood. Some of them were built in the time when metropolitan areas were expanding and decentralizing. And just - we just need to reinvest in these existing systems. But because we don't do a good job in this country investing in the infrastructure that's already built - we do a good job building new stuff - we don't do a good job taking care of what's on the ground. Things like water infrastructure are seriously neglected.

I don't think any city likes to hear - but you have to spend more money.


With more tariffs looming in the U. S. -China trade war, American companies are growing more pessimistic about the outlook for doing business in China. But 87% of U. S.  firms with operations in China say they still haven't moved production to another country, and they have no plans to do so. That's according to a new survey from the U. S. -China Business Council.

To find out why most plan to stay put, we've called up Jay Foreman. He's the CEO of Basic Fun. It's the toy company that makes K'Nex, Lincoln Logs, Cutetitos and Pound Puppies.

Jay Foreman, welcome.

Thank you. Glad to be here.

So I understand that currently 90% of your products are manufactured in China. Tell me why. What benefits does China offer you to base your manufacturing there?


And when we went to the break, you were saying that one of the advantages of storing it in DNA is once you make it, it will last a very long time.

That's right, and you gave the example in your introduction that - one of the examples that we like to use, it's quite well-known, you know, there's been these Neanderthal samples found, and they can get DNA out of there and read the DNA in technical - we call it we sequence the DNA. And those samples from Neanderthals, or another great example is wooly mammoth, they get samples routinely from 10,000- or 20,000- or 50,000-year-old mammoths.

And that's not even a carefully controlled sample. That's just, you know, a mammoth that laid down and died somewhere cold.

I'm sorry for the mammoth. So - but if you took your DNA, you would store it in a controlled environment somewhere, or does it not need that?If the mammoth is lying in the ice. . .


Back now with Day to Day and our conversation with Iranian author Azar Nafisi. I spoke with her about her new memoir.

The title of your book is "Things I've Been Silent About," and one of those things that you've been silent about until now was being sexually abused at a very young age. You were six years old, when a cleric who was visiting your house molested you, and you allude to other men also abusing you later. How did you come to terms with that, and how are you able to write about it?

He was not a cleric; he was a very religious man.

(Laughing) He was maybe worse than some clerics actually.


From the studios of NPR West, this is Day to Day. I'm Alex Cohen. This Thanksgiving Day, we'll hear how food banks are innovating to meet the needs of the hungry in the U. S.  That's just ahead. First, though, we go to Mumbai, India, where coordinated terrorist attacks began last night, killing more than 100 people. The attacks occurred throughout the city at sites like the Oberoi and Taj Mahal Hotels. Arif Doctor is a lawyer living in Mumbai. We reached him today at his home and asked what the city looks like.

From my home, we're seeing or hearing presently nothing. Last night, we heard three explosions, which we were told were hand grenades, at about midnight and half past one in the morning. And we were told those were hand grenades thrown out of the Oberoi Hotel.

Do you know anyone personally who has been at any of these sites that have come under attack?

We do. We know someone. I'm a lawyer, and there's another fellow lawyer - two fellow lawyers who are in the Oberoi, very senior lawyers who are in the Oberoi. We had contact with them til about four, five in the morning. And after that, we've heard nothing from them. They were in a restaurant which is on the ground floor of the Oberoi. One is called the Tiffin and the other Kandahar. And since that time, we've had no contact with them.


I would suggest the European Union needs to be there. I would suggest the Arabs need to be there in various configurations. So I think we need to do that. And I think we need to be much more cognizant of the fact that Syrians are really fearful of the future even more than they are of this hideous Assad regime.

And I want to make very clear, I have absolutely no sense that this guy, Assad, should, you know, lead that country in the future. I'm just saying, from the practical task of trying to enlist various factions, you might start with doing that rather than delisting various factions.

Well, it was interesting, the - I think the first effort involved the Kofi Annan effort sponsored by the United Nations. And they're broke down over the insistence by Mr.  Assad and his backers, including Russia, that he be part of the transition.

Yeah. Well, there's no question that Assad made Kofi's job almost impossible. But, you know, we're now well over a year after that, and I think if there are better coordination with whoever the envoy is, if it's another Kofi, if it's Secretary Kerry or some former senate colleague, say, of Secretary Kerry, I think you could kind of work with the Russians to say, OK, we're going to propose this. Assad won't like it. But Russians, do you agree with what we're doing?If you do, we'd like you to put a little heat on Assad to get him at least not to explicitly oppose it.


The MIT Media Lab has been under fire for the past several weeks for its financial links to deceased sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. The lab's director, Joi Ito, initially said he had accepted $525,000 and more for his own private tech investment funds from Epstein, and he apologized. Now The New Yorker has detailed the lengths to which the MIT lab went to conceal its acceptance of millions of dollars more in gifts arranged by Epstein. Today, Ito formally resigned, writing, quote, "after giving the matter a great deal of thought over the past several days and weeks, I think that it is best that I resign as director of the media lab and as a professor and employee of the institute, effective immediately" - unquote. Joining us to talk about this is NPR media correspondent David Folkenflik from New York.

David, welcome back. Thanks for joining us.

My pleasure.

Could you just walk us through the scale of this?How far did MIT go to conceal their ties with Jeffrey Epstein?


This report also looked at who could possibly pose this sort of threat, where they're based. What were the findings there?

Al-Qaeda is probably still the lead terrorist group. There are others, as we're seeing, or could be seeing, in India right now. Some of them are regional in nature, but the problem is that these terrorists all have organizationally the sophistication to get the technology to use one of these weapons. And we know that they have the desire to do it.

Now, we don't think they have the capability yet, but they have the sophistication to get it. And it terms of bio, if they recruit the right, you know, bio scientist or two, they get the technical capability.

Do the recent bombings last week in Mumbai add any weight to this report?


Africa is a continent wanting to change something. You know, everybody have to think what to do to give best future for the Africa, give hope to the young in Africa. And African young can have hope in Africa and make something in Africa and believe in Africa.

You've seen so much of the world. But why don't you take us to your childhood in Mali. And it's a country I've always wanted to visit. I've never been there, but I love the musical traditions and the long history of it being a nation with a lot of learning. What was it like for you growing up, and when did you start playing music?

I grew up in Mali, normally, like, with mother and father, you know what I mean, a lot of brothers and sisters. We are all together in the same house and is a great time, because is really happiness and very hot. Hot relationship and then a lot of good grand, grand ambience.

Well, let me jump in and ask you, when did you start playing music?What did you start playing and how old were you?


Then Brenda Gayle Beasley Forrest(ph) wrote to us from St.  Helena Island in South Carolina about our series on race. She said: I encourage you to continue the dialogue on being bi-racial in America or mixed race. I know Obama wasn't vocal on this issue, but as a white woman, I think Obama missed an opportunity to claim his bi-racialness and own up to it. Why not shout out, I represent all of America, all races, like the melting pot that is America?I take offense at a half-black, half-white person is shooing their whiteness and calling themselves just black.

And finally, Richard Reed(ph) in Grand Rapids, Michigan wrote us this about the race series. He said: In our family, there were people of black, American Indian, and white backgrounds. In the generations of our great grandparents, our grandparents and our parents, we were taught to love and respect all our family members. These lines of demarcation between people remain so arbitrary and so vague.

And that's it's for letters. Thanks for writing, and please keep your comments coming.

Now NPR has a new way to chime in on our stories. Go to our program page at nprnewandnotes. org and click on a segment. There you can click on the Comments link and write us your thoughts.


You got a sinus infection but you taking a yeast infection medicine figuring if you lay down, it'll work its way up.

Do you believe in Mars and Venus, the whole idea that men and women are totally different?

I really do. And if I can get women to understand that every man that sleeps with you is not going to love you, then half of us will be all right.

What about the other half?


Growing up in this community since I was a baby, this is my home. It's where I learned to live out on the land. It's where I harvest my food. It's where I live. I love this country. And at times like when you go to high school and you got to go to school, you leave the community. And when you're young, you like to experience and travel new things, but you always have that sense of home that you want to be back to. You want to be back. You want to be on the river. You want to be out on the land. I don't see myself wanting to move. This is my community, and I'm going to raise my family here.

You have a young daughter, I am told.

Yeah, her name is Tl'yah Tr'an Elizabeth Edith Josie (ph). She is 18 months.

You going to change what you tell her - is that going to be different from what your parents and grandparents told you?


Hi, how are you?

I'm fine, and we're very glad to have you. Let me ask you about South Carolina's primary, the first in the South. This is supposed to clear out some of the underbrush and let us see which candidates are survivors, also to show us something about this region. Could you give us a thumbnail sketch of why South Carolina matters?

South Carolina, because it's the first in the South, is the first test candidates face as whether or not they will have Southern appeal. And that's a big deal because the entire 11-state South makes up 59 percent of all the Electoral College votes you need to win the presidency in the general election. So if a Republican candidate in the modern era can sweep the South, they become president. But if a Democratic candidate can crack the South with two states, they become president. And South Carolina is the first test of support in this region.

Up to this point now, we've been watching Republican voters react to Donald Trump and Republican candidates try to overtake him. Is South Carolina in 2016 in some kind of position to clarify that?Should we look for anybody to break out maybe in the GOP debate tonight, or is Trump just going to sail through South Carolina and presumably the South?


There was no regulation at the time. I mean, the calves that they experimented on in the '60s came from Cooley's ranch. And when I was researching this, I heard this really bizarre story. And I asked - I had one source that I trusted implicitly. And I called her, and I said, I heard that Dr.  Cooley put a pig's heart in somebody. And she didn't bat an eye, and she said no, no, no, it was a sheep. Those were the days (laughter). You know, today, we have the FDA. We have hospital review boards. We have all kinds of things.

When you say artificial heart, you know, the first name that might come up is Robert Jarvik. I mean, some listeners might recall his name. He created a heart that kept Barney Clark, a dentist from Seattle - kept him alive for 112 days back in 1982. That was a huge story, huge story at the time. And that was a long time ago (laughter). Where are we today?Are people still getting artificial hearts implanted today?

It's interesting. Jarvik kept going. And there is a form of an artificial heart that Jarvik designed that's probably the best. But there is no total replacement. You know, a battery-operated - something that - they can cut you open, put this piece of titanium in, sew you back up, and you're good to go.

So from all your reporting, did you, you know, finish this up thinking, we're going to see an artificial heart in our lifetime?


Oh, yes, they're going to do it, like, regional. You know, so that'll be able to reach more people throughout the country, which is good because not everyone can make it to D. C.  And it doesn't start in D. C. It starts in every community where the blood flowed for our freedoms.

Well, Tim Chambers, thank you for stopping by and sharing a little bit of your story with us. Thank you.

My pleasure.

That's Marine Corps veteran Tim Chambers, also known as the Saluting Marine.


So you have worked directly with children at the Homestead Shelter in South Florida. Can you take us through one case, one specific type service that you provide now that you wouldn't be able to if and when these cuts go forward?

Generally we provide a Know-Your-Rights presentation to every single child that is detained in an ORR facility in South Florida. Next we provide a one-on-one legal screening with every single child that is in one of these shelters. That legal screening has two purposes. One is to let us know, is this an emergency?Do we need to file this child's case right away?Or are they eligible for relief and are going to be released to another location?If they're eligible for relief and going to be released elsewhere, we will work our butts off to try to find them a lawyer wherever they are released to.

What would it look like for a kid without a lawyer, without this type of legal aid that you're describing?

I mean, you can only imagine. There's no way that any child would be able to navigate this system alone. You know, no child is going to be able to represent themselves in court. And, you know, we see that already with unrepresented children.


One of the stories in the collection is called "Missed Connection-m4w" - men for women - and it begins sort of like a Craigslist post in missed connections and then evolves from there. And you actually first published this on Craigslist. Is that right?

Yeah. What the story is about is about this guy who can't work up the nerve to talk to this woman sitting on the same train car as him. And in fact, 60 years pass where they. . .

He also can't get up and leave.

He - yeah. Well, 'cause he's paralyzed by this idea of who this woman is even though he never actually talks to her. But - so I had the idea to write this fake missed connection and just post it anonymously on Craigslist.


That's a great question. Things are definitely improving in the eurozone. It is unfortunately too early to say that they're out of the woods or even completely out of their recession.

I gather that most of the growth appears to be centered in Germany and to a lesser degree France. And is this then just a case of work with the best economies to begin with getting a little bit better?

Well, Germany has been the better of the European economies, since they're getting a little bit better. France has struggled. Portugal had some good numbers last quarter. That's encouraging. But you're right, we are still deeply worried about other places, such as Italy, Spain and, of course, Greece.

Well, that brings up the question because unemployment still continues to be perniciously high in Spain and Greece. Does this improvement somehow filter through to them?

Well, it certainly will - should if it continues, but you need faster growth rates than this. The hope is that this is the beginning of a faster recovery. But the way the European economy is, roughly speaking, you need more than 1 percent per year annualized growth rate in order to reduce unemployment. Unemployment's very high. We want to be seeing on an annualized basis 2 percent, perhaps even 3 percent in this recovery phase in order to feel that they've really turned the corner.

You need greater growth to be able to spur greater hiring and to lower the unemployment.


And Border Patrol agents are making a lot of trips to the hospital with sick children up and down the Southwest border - nearly 70 kids a day since December, they say. But immigration officials say it's just hard to keep up with the sheer numbers here. It's putting a huge strain on resources, and they're asking Congress for billions of additional dollars to deal with it.

In the meantime, what more have you learned in your reporting about the death of Carlos Hernandez Vasquez?

Well, a couple of things. One thing that really stands out is that Carlos Hernandez Vasquez died in a Border Patrol station. The previous migrant children who died were taken to the hospital first; Hernandez Vasquez was not even though immigration authorities clearly knew that he was sick. He was diagnosed with the flu by a nurse practitioner.

On the same day, Customs and Border Protection moved him to a different Border Patrol station where they could separate him from the other migrants to stop the spread of the flu. Even Health and Human Services officials were concerned about how ill he was. This is the agency that's responsible for long-term care of unaccompanied children. And HHS decided that Hernandez Vasquez could not be flown to a shelter in Florida because of his illness. So in retrospect, critics say it's hard to see why they did not take him to the hospital.


Right.

It was, it's poignant because of Lisa "Left Eye" Lopez having passed away.

Definitely. And SWV and En Vogue, it was just yeah, that I thought, that was really good. I mean, where else could you see that but the BET Awards?

Yeah, it was, I mean I thought the staging was pretty amazing.

Definitely. Definitely.


(Through interpreter) I realized that an Indigenous woman had never been a part of Miss Panama before. When I decided to enter the competition and all of Panama realized that I was Indigenous, many people discriminated against me. This made me reflect and say, OK.  Now that I'm here, I have the opportunity to change their thinking, so I wanted to promote my culture. I decided to wear my cultural dress, the nagua, and demonstrate to the whole world how much Indigenous culture is worth in our country.

And speaking of discrimination, when you were running for Miss Panama, a rumor surfaced that you were actually from Venezuela. And you had to prove that you grew up on the comarca, the implication, I guess, being that someone as beautiful as you couldn't be Indigenous. That must have been painful.

(Through interpreter) Yes, of course. Yes. They made a fake passport saying I was Venezuelan, that my dad was European, that I wasn't even Indigenous. It hurt me because, for my whole life, I've just tried to be who I am. And because of this rumor, I had to prove my citizenship so that the country would know that I am actually Panamanian. There were so many accusations, and I had to defend myself in one way or another.

You've spoken both at the United Nations and the Organization of American States. And you told the ambassadors and officials there that Indigenous people in the Americas are considered inferior, uneducated, are discriminated against. How has your community experienced that?


Exactly. It's just something that's very hard for a rancher to fight. So. . .

Hasn't the Endangered Species Act done a lot of good?

You know, in some instances, it has. And, you know, most ranchers don't want to see everything destroyed. You've got to understand also that a rancher is basically an endangered species. We're not as numerous as we used to be. And I think that ought to concern everybody involved because everybody seems to like to eat pretty well. So I think that's something that people want to remember.

Bill Kluck, sheep committee chairman of our R-Calf USA - and he's a rancher in South Dakota. Thanks so much for being with us, sir.


Its impact has been on all aspects of Iranians' lives. They have problems in buying their usual daily foods. Prices have soared three or four times. They have problems in buying medication. If we want to talk about, for example, in the medical field, most of the drugs are now founding with much higher prices. Some of them cannot be found easily. So it affects their health.

What are you seeing?What does that look like firsthand?

Yeah. For example, in our field, physicians have to prescribe drugs that might be less effective, that might have more side effects. And they are affordable by the people in operations, in surgeries. We have shortage of devices. People must stay longer waiting for their operation, and it affects their health.

You mentioned some equipment. Can you give an example of that?


Thank you.

The next justice will be conservative. I think it's pretty safe to say that. But you write that conservative justices aren't all conservative in the same way. So could you explain?

Sure. Conservative judicial philosophy can mean a lot of things. Most prominently, what people talk about is that the judge focuses closely on the text and original understanding of the Constitution. But there are other philosophies that are associated with conservatism, as well. One is there's a libertarian strand of conservatism, which basically focuses on freedom from the state. And then there's an important strand of conservatism that says that judges should defer to the legislature and not get way out ahead of the people in terms of recognizing social rights. So, sometimes, the deference strand of conservatism conflicts with the other two.

You write that liberals are too confident in their despair, and conservatives are too jubilant. And you hinged that on Chief Justice John Roberts, who is conservative but could take on the mantle of the swing vote.


Oh, no. As a matter of fact, I was delighted that I had had the opportunity to contribute to it. I had the option to volunteer for the program. I opted not to because I was very much involved in research that needed to be done. So I was - I turned down the opportunity because I felt that what we were doing was valuable for the future of our space program. As a matter of fact, the small 5-foot diameter parachute that we used to stabilize my freefall is still being used today in every ejection seat in the world. So what we did some 50 year - 55 years ago is still being used today.

What do you think about space exploration now?It struck me watching this that it's lost its human component, in a way. We send these unmanned missions into deep space, but we haven't really pushed human boundaries, I think, for quite some time.

I personally think that we should go back to the moon as soon as we can because there's a lot of lessons we need to learn before we can go to Mars, which should be the next great human adventure.

May I ask you a question?As you were standing on the precipice, you said a prayer. What was that prayer?What were you praying for?


So that's the drug industry's argument against this proposal. They say that because of insurance coverage, hardly anyone pays the price the Trump administration is forcing these drug makers to include in their ads. That price is often called the list price or the sticker price, as we said. Drugmakers argue that including that price would scare consumers off from even going to their doctor and asking about a drug because they'd see a sky-high list price, and they would think - I can't afford that; I'm not going to go to the doctor.

Well, now that's interesting because that could be bad for someone's health. But is that actually what the government may want in some cases - for a consumer to make an informed decision that this drug just seems really pricey for the benefits alleged with it?

So I don't think the Trump administration would go that far. They say that this is the start of a conversation between a consumer and their doctor about a drug. They really want to try to get drugmakers to lower their prices. They've, countless times now, sort of shamed drug companies and said - if you're ashamed of your price, if you don't want to put it in your ad, lower the price.

And we should note that this is only for somewhat more expensive drugs - more than $35 per month. That's who the rule - that's what the drugs that the rule applies to. Hasn't one company, though, already gone ahead and just done this?


It doesn't, really. I mean, I have obviously no view on his guilt or innocence. But, I mean, abuse can be perpetrated by anybody in any walk of life. And rank does not guarantee that somebody will not be an abuser of children.

What do you think it says about how much progress the Catholic Church has made in fighting abuse by the clergy?

I think it shows progress in one area. And that is that civil authorities now are not reluctant to charge any member of the clergy. There's not that deference there was in the past. And that's a good change. As far as the actual church itself, there is still a reluctance. I mean, even in this case, the church guidelines themselves - most guidelines say that if a priest is accused of abuse, he must step down from his position on the accusation, must be investigated. But the accusations against Cardinal Pell were known months ago. And yet he was allowed to remain in his position until he was actually charged.

You've met with Pope Francis. How committed do you think he is to doing what's necessary?


Yes. Not a lot of people, but if you go into the databases where all these academic reports are kept and where they reference each other, you find that a lot of these reports, other people did cite him. And sometimes I've gone in and looked at those later reports by other people that mention Trinkaus' reports. And it seems to me that many times they didn't really read his report. They just - they saw he did a report that's about something related to what they're doing and they mentioned him. There are a surprising number of studies in academia that are like that, that mentioned earlier reports by other people and it's not clear whether they actually read those reports.

In hearing about him, I feel like there are shades of the 19th century naturalists who just went around tallying the things they saw around - around them. Do you think he was inspired by that at all or thinks of himself that way?

I don't know whether he was inspired by them, but that has always struck me as being the type of person he is. He looks around. He gets annoyed at what somebody's doing or lots of people, and it makes him curious. He doesn't just sit there and fume and have steam come out his ears or nose or whatever. He sits there and he counts and he documents it, and then he publishes that someplace where other people can read about it.

But he doesn't, at the same time, make any arguments about it. He just sticks to the facts, huh?


And that made both party's much more democratic operations - again, small D.  But the Democrats - large D, capital D - pushed it a lot further than the Republicans. The Republicans want to restrain the representational nature of the system a little bit so as to reach a conclusion a little faster. And that's the big difference now.

I think in Super Tuesday-voting today, for example, it's quite possible that one Republican candidate will get enough votes around the country that he'll become the nominee more or less de facto. On the Democratic side, though, there's really no chance to that. The proportional splits that I've been talking about, the breaking of the vote down and making it representative of the vote, that's going to divide the delegates between the two parties - or between the two candidates on the Democratic side.

So there are people on both sides of the major party system who have dropped out, and they have delegates. What happens to their delegates?

There aren't many, really. It's just a handful in both parties. And what will happen to those delegates is after their candidate is officially out - John Edwards, for example, is not officially out. He's just suspended his campaign.


I think that - I would like to see in a penal system where they had - a separate penal system for those people who have been convicted of drug crimes, non-violent drug crimes, where they address the addictive nature of whatever they're on and have them on probation and ease them out of the penal system with very severe probation conditions so you can address the addiction and the behavior and environment that invite continuing use, even though an addict is trying to change.

Well, Judge, always good to talk to you. Thank you.

Always. Thank you.

Judge Lynn Toler is the star of "Divorce Court. "She's also the author of "My Mother's Rules: A Practical Guide to Becoming an Emotional Genius" and she joined us from radio station KJZZ in Tempe, Arizona.


I asked Soerens what that would mean for his organization.

World Relief is really committed to our mission of empowering local churches to serve the vulnerable. We remain committed to that mission. But it would probably be at a reduced scale because with fewer refugees arriving, we wouldn't be able to maintain the current infrastructure we have throughout the United States. And of course, none of the people we'd be able to serve would be newly arrived refugees because those people would be shut out completely.

There are also questions right now about the asylum laws in general. Before the Trump administration, how difficult was it for any particular individual to claim asylum in this country and have that claim be accepted?

And so someone claiming asylum is basically professing to be a refugee. That is to say, they say they have a well-founded fear of persecution on account of their race, religion, political opinion, national origin or social group. And it's never been easy because the burden of proof is on the applicant. And frankly, sometimes the people who say they're going to kill you don't send you a notarized letter saying that. And you may not have documentary evidence of the well-founded fear of persecution.


The Confederates. 12,000 troops - give or take - under Confederate Commander Jubal Early.

And he had 12,000 troops?

More or less.

Amassed right over - up the street, basically?


. . . I think, who was - who was poisoned by, we think, we believe, some of his former colleagues. Yes. I think it was partly inspired by that. But it was partly, I think, inspired by the fact that Russia and particularly the Russian intelligence services seemed to be getting more aggressive. And now I'm an outsider, you have to remember, so I have no inside knowledge. But we read that there are just as many Russian intelligence officers in London, in the West in general, as there were during the Cold War. And you have to ask yourself what they're all doing. And that's one of the things I do ask myself when I'm writing fiction.

We have to crack open the story of this week. U. S.  security services this week say they're convinced that it was Russian hackers working for the government who hacked into the files of the Democratic National Committee. And they leaked material to have some palpable effect on the elections. Does that strike you as plausible?

It's plausible. But then there are many people who could have hacked into those files, not only the Russian intelligence service. So you have to remember that, you know, there are many people with that capacity and many reasons for leaking. I very much doubt that it's all as straightforward as it might appear.

I've read that you were the first official from British intelligence to meet with the KGB after the change.


So, what happened in West Virginia certainly doesn't instill confidence necessarily in a municipal water system I would think.

The fact that this happens so infrequently actually I think is a testament to the quality of our drinking water. I mean, it's quite remarkable. I could go anywhere in the U. S.  and have some tap water and not really give a second thought about its quality. I can't do that in most parts of the world. You know, there's no question you're right. We have to remain vigilant. There are always sources of contamination that water providers have to be worried about - natural sources, microbes, pathogens, bacteria and such. And then there are obviously these accidents. One of the reasons this chemical got into the system so quickly is that no one expected it to be in the water. And so the treatment system wasn't set up to deal with it.

Yeah. And now they're telling pregnant women you may still not want to drink this water, although other people can. And that, I think, makes people feel like, well, what do you mean?

Think about this, though. I mean, there are over 60,000 chemicals in commerce in the United States and only a fraction of those have had really significant toxicity testing. And so the chemical that's spilled here is something that's used to, you know, to treat coal. It's not something you'd expect to find in your drinking water. And that's not a justification for why we don't have the data, because we should have it. It ended up in our drinking water. But the scale of the problem I think is important to keep in mind as well.


You've probably seen the signs in pharmacies now - flu shots here. You can buy shampoo, deodorant, nasal spray, M&M's and a flu shot. But if you're of a certain demographic, you might consider waiting a while before you get that shot. Here's some advice from Dr.  Laura Haynes, a professor of immunology at the University of Connecticut.

The best time for most people to get the flu vaccine would be in October. If you're a little bit older and over 65, I would say between Halloween and Thanksgiving.

Why should older people wait a month or more?Dr.  Haynes says. . .

Their immune response isn't as good to the vaccine. So the protection that's induced wanes more quickly. So therefore, you'd want to wait a little bit longer than you would if you were a younger adult. That way, you're protected throughout the majority of the really bad flu season, which happens from, say, January to April.


Now, Ward Connerly said of economic affirmative action was okay so you know, rich and poor but not racial or gender. How do you feel about those distinctions?

I think that it's some - I think that there's something very misguided about that. If you're saying that the government can take action to try to bring about equality based on finances and economic status, it seems to me that given that racism and sexism still deform opportunity in this society, it makes no sense to stand against allowing the government and allowing the private sector to take action to try to bring about greater equality and equal opportunity.

Next week in Michigan, a federal district court judge is going to hear oral arguments against prop two. That judge could decide to throw out the proposition is unconstitutional but you're actually hoping for a full trial. Why?

We are, because we think that we have to go to the Supreme Court with a full record in these cases. We think that it's extremely important to get at the question of what is - of who has a preference in the society. And I think, as Ward Connerly himself admitted in our deposition, there are all kinds of preferences and privileges that white men have that still are not afforded to the whole society. And I think it's very important to get a trial record on that.


Why aren't all Republican votes for this bill locked up?There are conservatives who don't like it. They're centrists that don't like it.

Well, there's a lot to not like. It's a big, messy problem. But the conversation on, you know, The Weekly Standard, the Washington Examiner, the groups that I work with. . .

Yeah.

. . . You know, we are at the junction of these confluences. For years, you had a pretty straightforward, conservative view on health care that the free market fixes it so you put in some kind of floor so that, you know, worst-case scenario, you still got a net to catch you. But then you let people shop. And just like your iPhone, prices go down; quality goes up. It's - that's the formula. But that formula is hard to find in this bill because you have this other group of people who actually won the White House. And they're not conservatives. They're Trump - whatever, you know, Republicans, nationalists, whatever, and they have a different view.


The global economy is facing some risk right now, according to a leading woman in finance. We specify Christine Lagarde's gender because the managing director of the International Monetary Fund is among the most prominent women in a male-dominated industry. And gender is very much on her mind on this International Women's Day.

She's been suggesting the world would be a very different place if women played more leading roles in banking. Madam Lagarde has consistently said that had more women been in charge of the major banks, the financial crisis of 2008 might have been avoided. She's now studying risks to the economy, and that is where we began our conversation.

There are risks. It's coming from various corners of the world, this sort of downward trend that we're seeing. One is you have the euro area numbers, in particular, combination of the Brexit uncertainty and the trade concerns but also particular matters affecting, for instance, the automobile industry in Germany or the uncertainty over the Italian budget or the protests in the streets of my home country.

But you're also seeing some countries that have gone down for other reasons. Think of Argentina, which has faced a major crisis. Think of Iran, for instance, which have been revised downwards - big way. Think of Venezuela, which is contracting massively. So those are, you know, sort of, the particular countries that are going to contribute to that declining growth in 2019 and in 2020.


Well, it's really interesting. The word exoneration came to mind, but that's not quite right. I mean, you care if people don't believe you, but it wasn't my job to make people believe me. It was just my job to survive this and push a movement forward. But what I saw - that disgusting document that - you know, her email outlining how they were going to terrorize me. It was just as if, yes, this is exactly what's been happening to me.

And, of course, Lisa Bloom jumps out at many people because she had a reputation as a civil rights lawyer who represented women who had been assaulted or harassed. And she described that work in this memo to Harvey Weinstein. She said, quote, "I feel equipped to help you against the Roses of the world because I have represented so many of them," unquote. What do you make of that?

It's vile. It's just - it's kind of the mark of a psychopath, and it's so cold. And you know what?Yeah, the Roses of this world - we get pushed around. And we get hurt, and we get disbelieved. And to have a woman involved in it let alone a woman who purports to be all about protecting women and protecting people who get abused by power is - it's egregious. It's disgusting. It's despicable, but it's also fitting for I think who she really is.

Well, she says - she has said in subsequent statements several things. No. 1, she says she made a mistake. No. 2, she says she did not understand the scope of the allegations against him, including assaults.


Yesterday, in a letter to Congress, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said that significant uncertainty now exists with regard to unresolved tax and spending policies for 2013, but we didn't really need Timothy Geithner to tell us that. Ron Elving is with us. He's NPR's senior Washington editor, and he joins me here in Studio 3A to help us make sense of what's happening in Washington as this deadline looms closer like a shadow approaching. Right, Ron?Welcome back to TALK OF THE NATION.

Good to be with you, Celeste.

Explain to me what's going on 'cause, first, we heard there may be a proposal from the president, then we heard there's no proposal from the president. Where do the negotiations stand?

The Senate is here. The president is here. They appear to be talking. The president was on the phone before he left Hawaii with the Republican and Democratic leaders of both the House and Senate. And apparently in one of the conversations that he had, either last night or after he got back here today, he intimated in some way to the Republican leader in the Senate - now, of course he's the minority leader in the Senate, as the Republicans are under 50 percent in that body - and Mitch McConnell got the message one way or another that the president was going to put something new on the table later on today. And so his people came out and told all the reporters on Capitol Hill, we're getting something from the president today, stay tuned.


Yes, of course. Ja.

Does it work?Have you taken it for a spin?

We intentionally avoided to drive the car. But what is really interesting, after 162 years, we conducted this - we call it octagon engine because of the shape of the exterior of the engine. And we connected it to a battery supply and the engine is still working today.

So you've started it up.


Well, you know, the military hardware is not my specialty. I kind of look at the refugees, so good for you. But what I do know and what we can count is that they have been pretty effective in taking down some of these planes. There was a MiG that was shot down outside of Damascus. And so, in effect, this is their homemade stinger, they're homemade SAM-7. And all of this stuff has been captured from Syrian airbases. They continue to ask for these weapons from the international community.

In some ways it's become a way to say, do you support us?And if you do, will you give us those weapons?I have talked to a number of military analysts who say they don't really need outside weapons. They are beginning to capture what they need.

NPR correspondent Deborah Amos on the border between Turkey and Syria. You're listening to TALK OF THE NATION from NPR News. And as the areas under rebel control expand, are there coalitions developing between these local groups that have liberated various areas?Are there frictions developing among these groups?

We asked that today in this small town, and there is a council that has formed there. But these are people who've never done this before. They have committees for finding flour for the bakeries. They have committees for the refugees. They have committees for cleaning up the town. But all of this is done with no money. And because what happens when you are in a, quote, "liberated area," when the rebels liberate the area from the government, you are essentially under sanctions from the government.


Yet, does it make any kind of sense to you?

Well, it does. I think John McCain obviously from the beginning likes to shake things up. We saw that with the Sarah Palin pick the day after the Democratic convention ended. And we saw that with the poll showing that economic uncertainty helping giving Barack Obama boost in the polls. Perhaps that John McCain thought he'd shake it up by announcing that he would suspend his campaign, delay the debates because of this financial crisis.

So, did something happen politically in the last 24 hours to move Senator McCain back to Oxford, Mississippi or polls suddenly showing something?

Well, the feeling was always that he was going to have to show - he was of course hoping from a signal from either from the House Republicans or President Bush saying that negotiations were going well. But obviously, the Democrats really didn't like McCain's involvement on this. They said he was playing - he was posturing, playing presidential politics.


It's important to note that the French didn't suspend support. So, there is some disagreement over the way forward, even among allies. There are indications that the moderates backed by the U. S.  and the Islamists are negotiating over a merger. Both these groups oppose the Assad regime. They both oppose the hard-core al-Qaida group; in fact, they fought against them. There are reports that U. S.  policymakers are rethinking the approach to the Islamic front. U. S.  officials have reportedly met with some of the leaders of this group last month in Turkey. And this all comes in the context of the Geneva talks which are scheduled for January. That's when the Syrian regime and the political opposition are going to sit down face to face for the first time.

The only group, Scott, that can deliver any change on the ground is the Islamic Front. They're the most powerful rebel formation across northern Syria. They hold great swaths of territory. They are the important players, much more important than the moderate Free Syrian Army, who showed on Friday they can't even protect their warehouses. They are the weakest group on the battlefield, even though they're supported by the U. S. So, that's why there is a crisis in U. S.  policy and there appears to be some rethinking of that policy.

NPR's Deborah Amos speaking with us from Beirut. Thanks so much.

Thank you.


That's so well-said. That's been a really big part of this. You know, we offer so much to our students. And we're members of our community. And we're not asking for the moon. We really just want to feel like we're also taken care of so that we can continue to take care of other people. And in order to really provide the service that we're providing, we need some basic security and some basic rights.

That's Markella Los. She's a yoga instructor for YogaWorks in New York City, and she's part of the push to unionize yoga instructors there. Markella, thank you.

Thank you so much.

We reached out to YogaWorks for a comment, but the company has yet to respond.


The crowd was enormous. They were fired-up. There was this huge jumbo-tron screen on which the results were being displayed on CNN, and so, of course, as it came in, and it fall - it fell, first New Hampshire for Obama, then Pennsylvania, and then the red states started coming in. The crowd was going crazy.

What was striking about the speeches, after having covered Senator Obama for more than 20 months and seeing all the blue placards with Change on it and the rally atmosphere, this was very different than that. This was a presidential speech. The placards were gone, and American flags were being waved by people in the crowd.

And the speech itself was - there was no humor. It was a very serious speech. And though it had lots of optimism in it, it was about the challenges that we face as a country. And so, it really felt - and they, of course, set it up that way, so that it would be a pivot from the campaign Obama to the governing Obama. And one last observation is that he was surrounded on both sides by what looked like two huge parenthesis, massive bullet proof glass on either side of him as he spoke, protecting him from most of that crowd of roughly 200,000.

Well, let's talk about that pivot. We heard that Barack Obama will be speaking with President Bush sometime, perhaps, this week?


Not me but we collectively.

We. And then in one place, Philadelphia, I believe, they say yeah mean, which is different.

I thought he played basketball. The Chinese guy, Yao Ming.

Oh, he's - yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it's - I've fallen in love with the phrase. I've fallen in love with the culture, with the people. And just trying to, you know, spread laughter and learn at the same time.


That's right. There are a few things in particular that stood out in the early excerpts. I haven't had the chance to get my hands on the book yet. But a couple of things in particular. One is that Bannon talks about that infamous Trump Tower meeting in June of 2016 that featured Donald Trump Jr. , Jared Kushner, Paul Manafort and the meeting that they had with the Russian lawyer, who was offering dirt on Hillary Clinton. Bannon describes the meeting as treasonous, as unpatriotic. And he says that those three should've called the FBI immediately. A second thing is that he also says that there's no way - there's no way that Trump Jr.  didn't walk the Russians up one floor to the 26th floor of Trump Tower and introduce them to Trump himself.

We should explain that's his - he doesn't know that happened, but he just finds it inconceivable it didn't.

He doesn't offer any proof. He wasn't in the campaign at the time. But this would be important if true because Trump has denied any knowledge of the Russian overtures, any knowledge of Russian outreach. And it would - this would obviously contradict that. The last thing is that Bannon says that the investigation is going to focus on money laundering. There are indications that Mueller's team may indeed be looking at that. So a lot to digest there.

NPR's Ryan Lucas, thanks so much.


I mean, there is evidence that companies invest more when stock prices go up. But yeah, like you said, it's not necessarily on hiring. They might spend on equipment, factories, technology. And some of that could mean fewer jobs. You know, some of that technology makes things more efficient. The bottom line is it's not an easy cause and effect.

In the recovery from the recession, stocks went up, jobs didn't go up nearly as quickly. And sometimes, a company's stock price goes up after it lays people off. Investors say, oh, you're saving money. You're cutting spending. Good for you. In other words, it's not very simple. The stock market is a broad economic indicator, but it is not at all nuanced.

Danielle Kurtzleben. Thanks so much for being with us.

Sure. You bet.


I'm great. So, what excites you?I mean, it's a huge accomplishment to coach this team. And what excites you about this year's Olympic Games?

We have a fantastic team. You know, naturally, the team isn't picked yet and everyone will go through Olympic trials. But whoever comes out in the top three, they will represent this country to the highest degree. I'm sure it will be a balance of our veterans and our up-and-coming athletes. And they did very well last year in the world championship. And I'm looking forward to seeing the U. S. A.  do very well in Beijing.

What does it take - you're an Olympian, a medal-wining Olympian. What does it take to have, not just the skill, but the heart to get a medal in the Olympics?

You know, it takes a lot of sacrifice, you know?Many times the athletes have, they've done a lot of competition, of course. From age-group track & field, through high school, and if they attended college, it takes a lot of dedication, a lot of sacrifice, and a lot of focus. You know, a lot of times, you know, sometimes they can get distracted. But the ones that you see, the cream of the crop that you see at the Olympic Games are extremely focused and dedicated athletes.


Well, surprisingly there really aren't many regulations for consumer drones. There are some important rules that you have to stick to. You can't fly within five miles of an airport without special permission. You're not allowed to fly in heavily populated areas or over sports stadiums. You can only fight at altitudes of 400 feet or less. And you can't fly in D. C.  because someone crashed a drone on the White House lawn, so. . .

So all of D. C.  is out.

All of D. C.  is out, yes.

You know, I understand, or at least I saw on "Law & Order" years ago, that ignorance of the law is no defense. But I'd venture to say a lot of people are a little foggy on exactly how far they are from the airport.